THE DECADE ALBUM COVER

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » 9/30/2006, 6:59 pm

He mentioned I complain about the CM... my comment about your radio show had nothing to do with the CM.

I was disappointed that you (after admitting to liking the song) just buckled to the host and complained with him about OLP instead of sharing your opinion of the song or the band.

And I really don't think my response qualified as bitchy... I said people didn't miss much. This was after you had previously told me to "grow up" so forgive me for not being extremely supportive.

laurel · Post by **laurel** » 9/30/2006, 7:50 pm

oh for fuck's sake. all of this over an album picture.

i don't know how to put this without offending someone. i'm not meaning to attack you, kathy, and i'm sorry if it comes across that way.

kathy, you do complain, be it olp related or not. but then again, everyone complains. and sarah's radio show? your comment came across as very bitchy. you should be supporting members of the community, not insulting. it definitely could have been phrased differently, to show the disappointment. instead, it came off as very insulting and disrespectful.

allan's comment was rather harsh and seemed to be uncalled for...but part of it is true. it's a picture. it's not worth the worries and the stress, kathy. you know the mindest of the members here in the community, and should understand why the picture was posted and shared here. my post a a bit back outlined some reasoning. i believe you still are part of the cm community...and if you were not a mod on .net, would you not want to see that picture?

as i've said before, you're doing awesome with .net kathy...but while respecting the members there, please respect the members here. you were once in the same boat as all of us with .net. also, i know that your life is stressful with your job and other personal problems that you've posted...don't let these issues with .net/the cm make life any worse. in the big scheme of things, we're a very little thing. we don't want our kathy having a nervous breakdown!

Hope · Post by **Hope** » 9/30/2006, 8:14 pm

i don't even know what this comment on sarah's radio show is... but i think people should just chill. kathy did have a point in her argument about the album cover thing, but everyone started pointing their fingers at the wrong things.

:freak:

Post by **xjsb125** » 9/30/2006, 9:47 pm

I haven't weighed my two cents in on the issue, since I think it's all really silly. However I do own the keys to the city, so here is what I have to say:

Kaegen lacked a lot of tact in how he made the initial post. I know he hates olp.net, but coming on and saying "check out what I stole!" was not the best idea in the world. It set the whole thing up for immediate criticism.

There is not one damn person, aside from Josh, who read all the silly things in the legal crap of olp.net. I thought the post on .net about copyright infringement was silly too. If you were upset on the picture showing up here, all that you would have needed to do was PM a mod, Josh, or myself, explain the reason why you needed it down, and we could have easily taken it down for you. You have my phone number, as well as a lot of other ways to contact me, so not knowing how to get me isn't a reason.

Saying people got mad about Kiss On The Moth being ripped is silly. I have the words recorded right out of Raine Maida's mouth telling how he feels on music downloading. So I know it wouldn't be the band getting pissed.

I think it was Laurel who said Alan's post was harsh. It was tame. 2-3 years ago would have been harsh. I'm impressed that he has been pretty well behaved so far.

The personal attacks on each other...Sarah if you have a problem with Kathy and vice versa, please take it up with each other in PM. It is deviating from the root issue of this thread. (was that good moderation?)

As for the root issue, I think that it is being blown out of proportion. I understand why the folks at .net are upset, however, I think that all it would have taken was a simple message to a mod or admin here explaining the situation to fix it. The gun blazing "LAW VIOLATORS!!!111" message was guaranteed to draw immediate heat and was a poor decision. It's all about tact.

Illusion · Post by **Illusion** » 9/30/2006, 10:06 pm

Kathy wrote:My only arguments are...

1) Every time something that is made "members only" is stolen and made available elsewhere, it hurts my ability (as a part of the .net team) to ask for more exclusive content from Ultrastar/Coalition/Sony. Since KOTM was free, not for members, I had no reason to bitch about that.
2) The biggest pushers of the "more/better content" request on .net are also the ones who are sabotaging our ability to get it.

I seriously doubt that Sony or whatever group released the media to you will hold .NET accountable for it getting leaked. I mean, if entire albums like Gravity and HIPT get leaked weeks if not months before their release dates, then there's no possible way for Sony to expect a small group such as .NET to be able to keep something as "slippery" as picture under wraps. I'm pretty sure that when Sony decided to give you that media, they knew and accepted beforehand that it would inevitably get leaked. For that reason I doubt that this will effect .NET's ability to get future content.

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » 10/1/2006, 7:04 am

Ugh! Last words from me on this...

faninor wrote:
Kathy wrote:And ignore the cover art for a sec because this is part of a larger issue.... In the last year, .net has also had audio streams ripped, and exclusive photos and videos stolen. Is it any wonder that we are up against a wall trying to get real exclusive content?

This just isn't true...
…

I'm aware of ourladypeace.net members who have ripped material and downloaded images from the site that were not made available for downloads; however, from what I understand they've done this just to keep an archived copy and have not shared their rips.
…
It doesn't make any sense to be worried that members might download material from the website, what would matter is if they shared what they download with people who aren't members. I've heard nothing about that sort of thing happening.

In some cases it doesn’t really matter what your intentions are… Ultrastar and Coalition don’t know what you are doing with material that was taken when members got into the Admin panel, or with other things have been ripped. All they know is that they’ve been stolen from. And the Admin Panel material was not allowed to be made available to ANY fans (no member versus non-member argument here), yet everyone knows that members accessed it, which they found extremely frustrating.

Illusion wrote:I seriously doubt that Sony or whatever group released the media to you will hold .NET accountable for it getting leaked. I mean, if entire albums like Gravity and HIPT get leaked weeks if not months before their release dates, then there's no possible way for Sony to expect a small group such as .NET to be able to keep something as "slippery" as picture under wraps. I'm pretty sure that when Sony decided to give you that media, they knew and accepted beforehand that it would inevitably get leaked. For that reason I doubt that this will effect .NET's ability to get future content.

That’s great, except that I’m going by exactly what I’ve been told as a member of the .net team, and the artwork is just one example of their frustration regarding content.

laurel wrote: and sarah's radio show? your comment came across as very bitchy. you should be supporting members of the community, not insulting. it definitely could have been phrased differently, to show the disappointment. instead, it came off as very insulting and disrespectful.

To be honest, I had no intention of trying to phrase things in a supportive or less direct/disrespectful way since she has previously insulted me. I wouldn’t have said what I said if the radio show thing was someone else on this board instead of Sarah. I treat people with respect when they treat me with respect. Don't expect me to support someone who tells me to "grow up", and insults me & my friends.

xjsb125 wrote:If you were upset on the picture showing up here, all that you would have needed to do was PM a mod, Josh, or myself, explain the reason why you needed it down, and we could have easily taken it down for you. You have my phone number, as well as a lot of other ways to contact me, so not knowing how to get me isn't a reason.

Given Lindsay and I have been on the opposite side of a number of issues lately as compared to you/Josh/Kaegan, and I’ve watched you guys back each other up on a number of occasions, I did not expect that this was a valid option. And it’s fine for you to say that now, but I’m not positive that if I had actually approached you or Josh on this, that anything would have been done.

Lastly, I set out wanting to help OLP and help the fans by trying to make improvements on .net from the inside instead of just bitching or resorting to immature crap like other people. I've been sent nasty e-mails, I've been called names, I've had friendships damaged, and some people have stopped talking to me solely because of the decision to try to help out.... all in the last month. People have been really immature and have gone overboard on this. I get shit on because I'm trying to help. After all this, it any wonder I that I defend the rules of .net, and I'm a little more sensitive and bitchy than normal? Geez.

Post by **xjsb125** » 10/1/2006, 9:05 am

Welcome to the life of an admin!

As long as you have valid justification for needing something removed, I'm always willing to work with you. Remember, we are the same people who wouldn't allow HIPT to be shared on the hub for 2 weeks after it was released, and the same people who put decoy shares out all over the internet. I do back Josh up on a lot of his opinions, because very thouroughly states his case and I see no reason to not back it up. However, I also try to be objective when it comes to multimedia surrounding the band. Whenever Stace set out guidelines for material, then I made sure to follow it. I can work with you that way too, if that is what you want.

Post by **faninor** » 10/1/2006, 10:50 am

Kathy wrote:And the Admin Panel material was not allowed to be made available to ANY fans (no member versus non-member argument here), yet everyone knows that members accessed it, which they found extremely frustrating.

What are you referencing here? If you mean the videos which someone stumbled upon that apparently were not approved to be put on the site, then I'd like to clarify that they weren't accessed by somehow breaking into the admin panel. All videos have an id number attached to them and a link to view them such as the following link:

(a directory path goes here)/winPlayer.php?id=XXX&format=WIN&speed=L&type=v

(I'm not posting the actual link because that's against .net's TOS
)

The very first video put on the site had an id of "19." Some memebers were curious if changing the URL to include another number might allow them to access videos that haven't been linked to on the site yet. This is how those videos were accessed, simply taking an existing URL and changing a number, not by somehow breaking into the admin control panel.

If you're talking about the time when an Ask OLP Asks question was removed, and later added again by Maria, then I would agree and perhaps someone had access to the admin control panel who shouldn't have. I even said on .net that I was very worried because of this, and immediately changed my password.

I share Matt's stance on multimedia. We try to police ourselves. Hell, last I checked I was still sharing my spoofed version of Healthy in Paranoid Times on the hub, Apology and Aunt Jemima and all. If we end up with a file that we're asked not to distribute by someone at Coalition or the band, or that is members-only material from .net then those files would go into folders that are strictly not shared. Coalition should know this since we worked with Stace on the HIPT leak and she probably discussed it with management. They have no reason to be worried about these same people leaking .net's material all around the Internet because we will not do it.

Kaegan · Post by **Kaegan** » 10/1/2006, 8:02 pm

*giggles*

egotist · Post by **egotist** » 10/9/2006, 7:09 am

I wonder when management will begin to account for the bad faith resulting from OLP.net versus the amount of positive cash coming in.

If the purpose of olp.net was to unite the fans, it would seem it is failing miserably.

Its not as though the band is skittish about putting content online. Both Jeremy and Raine have been putting up great stuff on Myspace. Its awfully telling that they chose to post using publicly accessible and free services rather than add to olp.net.

The pay-for-view website was a bad idea from the start and management would do well to get rid of it.

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » 10/9/2006, 7:26 am

FYI - Everyone makes money if OLP tours, and since they have barely had any shows this year, there is no cash flow or income for any of the parties involved.

And Raine and Jer's myspaces relate to personal (non-OLP) projects, which is why you don't see that stuff on ourladypeace.net. In addition, they 100% own their solo material so there are no issues with Sony or Coalition or copyright infringement of any kind. They do not 100% own OLP material.

Kicker774 · Post by **Kicker774** » 10/9/2006, 9:44 am

You guys know that you can join .Net for free w/ the virtual ticket right?
I was one of the first to see the artwork and didn't have to pay a dime other than my tix to Edgefest and a number of other concerts from the recent tour.

Post by **xjsb125** » 10/9/2006, 9:00 pm

You had a surcharge on your ticket that wouldn't have normally been there to pay for that membership.

Random Name · Post by **Random Name** » 10/9/2006, 9:45 pm

Only you didn't have to pay that either.

Lando · Post by **Lando** » 10/10/2006, 3:10 am

but you did!

egotist · Post by **egotist** » 10/10/2006, 6:11 am

Kathy wrote:FYI - Everyone makes money if OLP tours, and since they have barely had any shows this year, there is no cash flow or income for any of the parties involved.

And Raine and Jer's myspaces relate to personal (non-OLP) projects, which is why you don't see that stuff on ourladypeace.net. In addition, they 100% own their solo material so there are no issues with Sony or Coalition or copyright infringement of any kind. They do not 100% own OLP material.

Kathy, I think you're being a little quick to be so defensive.

I should have made it clearer that I was exclusively referring to the economics of funding a web presence. That it is to say the cost/benefit ratio of imposing a paid hierarchy among your most loyal fans. Lets not mince words, that's what OLP.net is.

As for the content posted on MySpace, I didn't allude to any intellectual property dispute but if that's what is at work here, then I laugh again. Call me nuts, but shouldn't the general idea be to expose OLP material to as many people as possible? I would have thought if OLP.net is such a great vehicle for delivering content to their fans that members of the band would make better use of it (say, by posting up their MySpace experiments).

But perhaps I'm mischaracterizing the purpose of the website. Its possible that the project isn't about exposure and isn't about revenue generation. Which causes me to wonder what it IS its purpose and how well is it achieving that purpose in light of all the friction and controversey surrounding it?

My theory is that this website is an albatross. One of those ideas that looked good in theory but has failed to be implemented effectively for probably dozens of reasons.

I guess the bottom line is fans and web users expect content for free. I'm not saying that's right, I'm saying that's the general standard. There are very few bands big enough to impose a paywall for exclusive info and I don't think OLP is one of them. I would also add that it's pretty tacky. Could you imagine a 1-900-OLP-FANS hotline? ($5 first minute, $3 each additional minute) OLP.net is essentially that.

Best of luck with your involvement, Kathy.

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » 10/10/2006, 4:43 pm

I'm actually not defensive, but if it comes across that way I'm not surprised since I've been attacked from every angle in the last 6 weeks.

quote wrote: One of those ideas that looked good in theory but has failed to be implemented effectively for probably dozens of reasons.

Clearly.

And I have to say, I have no idea who you are! :lol:

Post by **xjsb125** » 10/10/2006, 4:58 pm

egotist wrote:My theory is that this website is an albatross. One of those ideas that looked good in theory but has failed to be implemented effectively for probably dozens of reasons.

I guess the bottom line is fans and web users expect content for free. I'm not saying that's right, I'm saying that's the general standard.

Indeed.

Myspace is a far more effective vehicle right now that .net. I think I would capitalize on myspace as an advertisement forum with teasers to work, and have everyone posting up at .net. How much more interesting would it be if Raine, and Jeremy had their own sections to .net where they were free to roam and do what they wanted with their stuff? Perhaps that might be a greater draw than what is there now. That might be impossible from whatever legal or logistical reason, but it's an idea.

And everyone shouldn't be so quick to knock down Kathy and Lindsay. We all may not agree with their views, but they have done more in 2 months than Maria did in 1 year.

Mike, you never mailed me those videos. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Kicker774 · Post by **Kicker774** » 10/10/2006, 6:38 pm

xjsb125 wrote:And everyone shouldn't be so quick to knock down Kathy and Lindsay. We all may not agree with their views, but they have done more in 2 months than Maria did in 1 year.

I'd agree with that. It seems like before they stepped up everyone was hitting Maria or the site in general with everything and and perhaps was too much for Maria or others in charge.

At least now we have someone that can realy things onto to the people in charge and probably to that a bit nicer than some people would.

One thing I have seen is that their doing alot of "What do you want?"
Mostly little things like what do you want your post number status to say? But those little things add up.

menomena · Post by **menomena** » 10/10/2006, 11:24 pm

You know what OLP.net needs more of? Naked people. I am sure their membership total would rise exponentially if there were more naked pictures of Duncan. Hell, I'd join for that, and I know you would too.