bush admin 1 - pain sufferers 0.

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 6/13/2005, 5:42 pm

the biggest problem i see with that is the effectiveness (could) be reduced and as such, the cost-effectiveness of such research wouldnt be worth the cost
i mean... they say when a new medication is developed the costs associated can sometimes exceed billions of dollars to put it all together and test it all and such
why spend that much money on a product that currently exists and works as is to change it when you dont know if a) it will work b) it will be approved etc etc
right now.. theres enough other meds which do work for those who arent in "dire circumstances" (which is usually when marijuana is prescribed)
instead of dropping say 300-400 million bucks on marijuana, it would better serve the R&D depts to drop that money into improving the meds that currently exist or working on a cure to diseases which need to be cured (which is what theyre doing with the funds they have)

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » 6/13/2005, 6:18 pm

happeningfish wrote:Except for hallucination and brain cell death, you mean

It's actually been proven that it does not kill brain cells.

Not to anymore of an extent than anything else does anyway.

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 6/13/2005, 6:26 pm

What do you mean by "anything else"?

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » 6/13/2005, 6:28 pm

I mean anything else that kills brain cells. A lot of researches will say a lot of stuff kills brain cells. Alchohol, tobacco, television, computers, all kill brain cells.

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 6/13/2005, 6:28 pm

Computers, eh?

... that explains a lot about the CM.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » 6/13/2005, 6:29 pm

beautiful liar · Post by **beautiful liar** » 6/13/2005, 7:09 pm

nikki4982 wrote:Computers, eh?

... that explains a lot about the CM.

i feel like i should be vaguely offended by that.

*continues to stare at string*

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » 6/13/2005, 7:10 pm

Welcome to my world. What's going on again?

thirdhour · Post by **thirdhour** » 6/13/2005, 8:41 pm

Dr. Hobo wrote:the biggest problem i see with that is the effectiveness (could) be reduced and as such, the cost-effectiveness of such research wouldnt be worth the cost
i mean... they say when a new medication is developed the costs associated can sometimes exceed billions of dollars to put it all together and test it all and such
why spend that much money on a product that currently exists and works as is to change it when you dont know if a) it will work b) it will be approved etc etc
right now.. theres enough other meds which do work for those who arent in "dire circumstances" (which is usually when marijuana is prescribed)
instead of dropping say 300-400 million bucks on marijuana, it would better serve the R&D depts to drop that money into improving the meds that currently exist or working on a cure to diseases which need to be cured (which is what theyre doing with the funds they have)

dude. drug companies spend freaking bajillions on reseach every year for new drugs because it's so profitable. if marijuana does have more amazing pain-killing effects that no other drug ever made, it would totally be worth it for the companies.

however, until that happens (and even if it did, it would be years down the road until anything came from it), i don't see why the us government is all up in a fuss about people growing their own plants for medical use.

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 6/13/2005, 10:23 pm

thirdhour wrote:dude. drug companies spend freaking bajillions on reseach every year for new drugs because it's so profitable. if marijuana does have more amazing pain-killing effects that no other drug ever made, it would totally be worth it for the companies.

i know that mommy

thats the point tho... theyre spending money to fund research into new drugs that could, potentially, make the use of marijuana fully and completely obsolete...

thirdhour wrote:however, until that happens (and even if it did, it would be years down the road until anything came from it), i don't see why the us government is all up in a fuss about people growing their own plants for medical use.

i agree with that fully.. thats the whole point to this thread really.. why make those who are suffering already and will die a rather painful death suffer even more when they have a chance to appease their pain on their terms and without the dangerous side effects associated with conventional medications.

and going back to some earlier points made looked up forms of use for it and found this interesting article and information:

Ingestion:

produces somewhat different effects from inhalation because material that is eaten is first processed by the liver before it reaches the brain. Ingested marijuana takes longer to be felt and its effects last longer. The long lasting nature of ingested marijuana can be very helpful. Some people regulate their condition by eating small amounts or marijuana, they barely feel any effect from the drug except for the relief of their symptoms.

The major drawback of ingestion is that the effective dose can be hard to predict. A given oral dose may be absorbed more or less easily. It may take several hours to take full effect.(~)

http://www.friendlystranger.com/info/me ... tm#consume

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 6/13/2005, 11:08 pm

Because of those people, helpful things get removed from use. Instead of asking me why take away something that might be helpful to some so that many others may abuse, you should be asking why other people abuse this substance when because of their actions, people will suffer and/or die due to lack of this substance (and other substances). But that seems to be the case for most society, so instead of being angry and/or disappointed in the administration for not allowing medicinal marijuana, you should by angry and disappointed at abusers. The overall safety and health of those you seek to govern should be your top priority. That?s why this substance is illegal. It?s not a healthy substance; the last thing anyone wants in this world is a society that is full of addicts. Addicts are expensive, they take up too many resources, money, and time to rehabilitate, and most do not actually rehabilitate well, they tend to relapse.

In terms of legal products like those mentioned, for the most part all of those items are used responsibly by the majority of the population. How often is pot used responsibly? Most of the time it is abused, and when it is being used responsibly, it is not necessary because there is a pill alternative. That?s what keeps gasoline and glue legal while leaving pot illegal.

In response to Rusty?s post regarding the abundance of pot, chickenweed (yerba de pollo), grows wild in my yard. It?s a weed. It?s ridiculously abundant. Rosemary and other simple herbs are easily available at grocery stores. Other exotic herbs can be bought through catalog or internet.

Aspirin, Penicillin, and many others come from plants. Apparently there?s a chemical in pot that helps ease pain and helps build appetite. It?s already been extracted and is in pill form. what possible reason must one smoke other than to abuse the substance if the active ingredient is already extracted? There are other plants out there that may hold the key to cures for diseases, and that can help build immunity to terminal diseases. Pot is already tapped out. We need to look into other plants and herbal remedies.

modern psychokitty · Post by **modern psychokitty** » 6/13/2005, 11:38 pm

because some people are self-centred. people abuse all sorts of legal medicines, like valium. it doesn't mean they should be illegal.

and as for the lung damage... it doesn't matter. they will still take a smoker's lungs, because it's better than nothing for a kid who's about to die of cystic fibrosis. and they are NOT going to take anything out of a person who died of aids.

and reno, the issue is that other herbal remedies are not illegal. my doctor suggests which foods and supplements i take to help combat my depression all the time. but they are all perfectly legal and available in my supermarket.

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 6/14/2005, 12:29 am

This seems... almost... semi-relevant to this conversation... and I don't know where else to put it, so:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 005&sc=892

Wouldn't it be amazing if the plant turned out to be a miracle cure?

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 6/16/2005, 12:35 am

modern psychokitty wrote:and reno, the issue is that other herbal remedies are not illegal. my doctor suggests which foods and supplements i take to help combat my depression all the time. but they are all perfectly legal and available in my supermarket.

because other herbal remedies are not dangerous. if st. john's wort was dangerous, it would be illegal. Ephedra was taken off the market because it would found to be dangerous. pot isn't the safest herbal remedy to relieve pain, or promote appetite. that's why its not endorsed.

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 6/16/2005, 2:56 am

Fine, everyone ignore my nice happy post!!!

Harrumph!!!

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » 6/16/2005, 8:50 pm

I didn't ignore it Nikki. I read part of it, but not the whole thing cause I'm tired, but I looked. Anyway in response to Reno's comment about it being abused. It is true there are those who will become addicted, but alchohol is legal and it's addictive and has no kind of helpful effects at all, in fact it's a depressant. The opposite of what society needs. Then there is tobacco, it's responsible for a good majority of the deaths in many countries. It causes cancer, emphesma(sp), and clogs people lungs. It has no beneficial substances in it, it's just pure and utter poison that people inhale into their bodies, but it is legal. Also, the smoking of pot, is not as harmful as smoking a ciggarrete. It's just a natural plant, and rolled in paper or another substance, there is no tar that will pollute someones lungs.

Every animal knows where to find a plant like pot. It's a natural respone in animals to seek it out, when it is needed. For example, cat nip. I assume we all know it's effects on cats.

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 6/16/2005, 11:44 pm

Some people would argue that those other substances should be illegal, as well.

Remember prohibition?

And, I for one, will NEVER understand why tobacco is still legal.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 6/16/2005, 11:59 pm

i read the article Nikki and it was a very interesting piece, as well as hopeful. i remember seeing it in the news too. it's really cool.

Rusty wrote:I didn't ignore it Nikki. I read part of it, but not the whole thing cause I'm tired, but I looked. Anyway in response to Reno's comment about it being abused. It is true there are those who will become addicted, but alchohol is legal and it's addictive and has no kind of helpful effects at all, in fact it's a depressant. The opposite of what society needs. Then there is tobacco, it's responsible for a good majority of the deaths in many countries. It causes cancer, emphesma(sp), and clogs people lungs. It has no beneficial substances in it, it's just pure and utter poison that people inhale into their bodies, but it is legal. Also, the smoking of pot, is not as harmful as smoking a ciggarrete. It's just a natural plant, and rolled in paper or another substance, there is no tar that will pollute someones lungs.

Every animal knows where to find a plant like pot. It's a natural respone in animals to seek it out, when it is needed. For example, cat nip. I assume we all know it's effects on cats.

that's right rusty we have 2 legal vices on society right now. it's allowed and acceptable for resons beyond my comprehension. tobacco, is also a plant, it's a natural herb that gets dried and is smoked. there are hundreds of other plants that are harmful to humans. pot is one of them.

but getting back to my main point, we have 2 vices on society right now, why do you want to legalize and legitimize a third one? think of how many more driving fatalities the world will have if this is legalized. think of the rising cost of rehabilitation on social services and the litigation that will result from this. the main problem here is that 2 pandora's boxes have already been opened, and they cannot get closed ever again. with the legalization of marijuana, one more box will be opened up that will not be able to be closed.

thirdhour · Post by **thirdhour** » 6/17/2005, 12:56 am

Injesting pot does too have the same effects as smoking it! :lol:

brownies, everyone?

That being said, I CANNOT eat pot, I just can't. I can't even smell it raw or else I'll throw up. Especially doused in brownie mix, the stuff just makes me puke. I've only ever puked once drinking, but thown up numourous times with just a crumb of brownies. It's not fun.

So, back on topic, everyone.... :freak:

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » 6/17/2005, 7:57 pm

Bandalero wrote:that's right rusty we have 2 legal vices on society right now. it's allowed and acceptable for resons beyond my comprehension. tobacco, is also a plant, it's a natural herb that gets dried and is smoked. there are hundreds of other plants that are harmful to humans. pot is one of them.

but getting back to my main point, we have 2 vices on society right now, why do you want to legalize and legitimize a third one? think of how many more driving fatalities the world will have if this is legalized. think of the rising cost of rehabilitation on social services and the litigation that will result from this. the main problem here is that 2 pandora's boxes have already been opened, and they cannot get closed ever again. with the legalization of marijuana, one more box will be opened up that will not be able to be closed.

I'm not arguing for it to be legalized for recreational use, only medical use. It is an effective pain killer and helps raise an appetite. Many people should not drive a car when they take medication. There is restrictions on all medications there should be restrictions on this as well. There are some jackasses out there who would argue it to be legal for recreational use as well, but that's another debate, if you have a prescription for it, you should be able to use it.