Cass, I just wanted to tell you that I really respect your opinion. It takes a lot to be true to yourself and your views even when you're in the minority (i should know, what with living in utah and all hehehe, this whole thing is kind of ironic).
Thanks We are similar in opposite ends of the spectrum. Interesting. But, at least I have people that I talk to in "reality" that share my views.
Megs: I don't disagree, but I do think you'll find that a lot of people would be somewhat scared of a black/woman president. I think you'd find a Latino before a black man.
Nikki: I'll accept that constructive criticism ( as a sidenote, if any of you have any criticisms of me... please voice them in a constructive way. It helps you and me both). I actually didn't fully read your post in the 5 minutes before i had to run off to uni and as a result just typed out a reply to what I THOUGHT you were saying. As for being Holier-than-thou. heh, I don't like to think myself as better than anyone... I guess my whole aim here is to try and even the scales a little bit, poor Cass is being quite overwhelmed. Discussions like these are never productive if there isn't a balanced opposing view... so I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou I'm just trying to even the balance. Yes I'm conservative, but I can appreciate the view from the other side and if it was all pro Bush here, I'd probably adopt a pro-Kerry stance to even out the ledger.
Yeah, those IQ Deals are not true. Especially since according to studies[done a few years back], only 15% of American geography students can find Iraq on a globe. And only 35% can find NJ. I kid you not.
I love how some of you people in Canada think you should have some kind of say in who our president is. Who the hell do you think you are?! This is our country, and our country has spoken. We have elected a strong and honest leader. If you aren't happy about it TOO BAD! Do we complain about your PM? No, and you know why? Because #1 we don't care, and #2 we have not right to care. If you have a problem with our ELECTED leadership why don't you come on down here and try and remove him? Otherwise all this bitching and moaning is just annoying and not worth anyones time. As for the Americans that are doing the same, thats their right as Americans. However you were outvoted. Bush was elected your president. A majority of the country voted for him so obviously the majority of America thinks hes doing a good job.
We have elected a strong and honest leader. Yeah, Okay.
I don't believe that Canada should have a say in your elections, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Your country is debatably the most powerful nation in the world[which i'm very sure you know]. Therefore, your president has a far bigger impact on not only just America, but the entire planet. Thus, people are going to have an opinion. Like it or not.
Your country is debatably the most powerful nation in the world[which i'm very sure you know].
LOL debatably? Ok humor me.....what country could be more powerful than the US?
Also how has Bush not been honest? Are you actually saying that you believe Kerry to be more honest that Bush?? Bush is the strongest leader we have had since Reagan.
Anyways, Venom, you probably noticed that the people in here who said they wanted a say in the US elections even though they were from Canada didn't back this up with any reasoning whatsoever, and most of them were just one time posters just trying to give their two cents.
As much you guys could care less who was voted PM in our country, the elected leader of your country is a worldwide issue. Even you would know that its outcome affects the whole world. The world is watching, and they don't know why he was re-elected considering the mess that seems to have been made, and the things he has said.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
Even you would know that its outcome affects the whole world. The world is watching, and they don't know why he was re-elected considering the mess that seems to have been made, and the things he has said.
He was re-elected because he is the candidate that people knew would lead the war on terrorism better. Kerry seemed "light" (and thats being nice) on the issue and that scared many Americans. The rest of the world was not attacked like America was on 9/11. The rest of the world would rather see terrorism as a "nuisance" (like Kerry was quoted as saying) rather than the serious issue that it has become. In the 70's, 80's, and 90's that how it was looked at, and what has happened? Bush will act desisively and effectively to subdue terrorism. The world now knows how serious the people of America are about terrorism, WMD's, and countries that harbor terrorists. America will not appear weak on this issue like countries such as France, Germany, and other European countries. Russia has finally seen the light....too bad it had to come at the loss of so many young lives.
Do you find it intriguing the Osama Bin laden said that he would not attack countries which have done him no harm? I believe he used Sweden as an example. Do you not agree that American foreign policy over the course of the last century has directly influenced the terrorism?
And, why is it wrong for terrorists to fight back if attacked? If someone feels they have been attacked, they should be able to defend themselves. No attacker, no need for defense in my opinion. Osama has already came out saying that his attacks are in defense of the attacks against his people. Don't you think it would be advantageous to the USA to step back and ask themselves if there are ways to go about this without guns and bombs?
I will guarentee that if the USA ever decided to step back and take a moderating role rather than take sides, terrorism would not be an issue.
By the way it's nice to see you back here.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
Do you find it intriguing the Osama Bin laden said that he would not attack countries which have done him no harm? I believe he used Sweden as an example. Do you not agree that American foreign policy over the course of the last century has directly influenced the terrorism?
And, why is it wrong for terrorists to fight back if attacked? If someone feels they have been attacked, they should be able to defend themselves. No attacker, no need for defense in my opinion. Osama has already came out saying that his attacks are in defense of the attacks against his people. Don't you think it would be advantageous to the USA to step back and ask themselves if there are ways to go about this without guns and bombs?
I will guarentee that if the USA ever decided to step back and take a moderating role rather than take sides, terrorism would not be an issue.
Do you believe everything you hear out of Osama Bin Laden's mouth??? If so I'll just rest my case here. The terrorists methods of fighting back is killing innocent people!! They target them on purpose and you are defending that?? What has happened in the past century is not Bush's fault and that is what we are debating here. There is no changing history. However two of the things Osama is upset about, 1. being the US supporting an Israeli state (which they have every right too) and 2. the US bases in Saudi Arabia to stop Saddam in the 1990's (which was the right thing to do) are by no means rational grievances. This is what I'm talking about when I speak of countries appeasing terrorists. We can't allow them to eradicate the Jews or build up WMD's. Sorry that just isn't prudent.
You talk about Osama and "his people". Who are his people? When was he a leader of a country? He is a fundamentalist, ego-maniacal, killer. If you support what the man stands of and actually think we should stand back and let him continue what he has done for the past 30 years you are insane!
As for being a moderator.....Clinton tried that over and over again with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and look where it got him. The people of Palestine and the middle east will not settle for anything less than the total and utter destruction of Israel. Do you support that?? This is why none of the peace plans in the past have worked. There is no more time for moderating. The time has come for action. America will no longer stand by and allow terrorism to continue at its current rate. There is no compromising or negotiating with terrorists.
Jim, your arguements are normally logically sound and sane so I'll put the Osama post down to a brain fart. Terrorists do NOT fight back fairly. Their methods involve not only attacking innocent civilians but the psyche of the survivors. In other words. If you don't bow to our demands, you may be next! Why am I even explaining this... we all know how they work.
On a side note as a moderator, the world needs a superpower. I'm sorry theres no 2 ways about this. Someone needs to watch over the petty squabbles to make sure they don't break out into wholesale slaughter. The US is the reason why Israel is still a country today, why China hasn't invaded Taiwan, why Pyong Yang hasn't put the moves on Seoul. Without a superpower there is a void, and in that void chaos reigns. In time the US will wane in its authority. China will be the next dominant global force and maybe India as well. There is power in population.
To be quite honest I don't know enough about Palestine and Isreal to comment on what is right to do there. It's unfortunate but there is just so much to the issue that it's hard to digest in the little time I have to read about it.
In a human sense, I believe that people can be rational. People can talk to one another, and people can solve problems. I agree that war is sometimes needed, but not until all other methods have been exhausted, and from the few sources I've read about Isreal (namely the BBC), it seems like talks came to a halt multiple times, but progress was being made. Please, correct me if I'm wrong but there has been more violence in Isreal since 2000 than there was during the Clinton administration.
I also don't see how terrorism can be defeated. How can the USA prevent one man from blowing himself up, without entering an Orwellian situation on the whole world?
As for Bin Laden, I don't see any reason for him to lie. In all honesty what does he have to hide? He's already the most wanted man in US history. Why would he throw out phony statements? He's not trying to sound like a nice guy to people. I agree that he is a dangerous individual, but I can see where he's coming from after reading the transcript of his latest tape.
You also don't need to be the leader of a country to have people you recognize as your own. Do you recognize Americans as your people?
This all comes down to the fact that violence begets more violence until discussion occurs.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
Korzic wrote:Jim, your arguements are normally logically sound and sane so I'll put the Osama post down to a brain fart. Terrorists do NOT fight back fairly. Their methods involve not only attacking innocent civilians but the psyche of the survivors. In other words. If you don't bow to our demands, you may be next! Why am I even explaining this... we all know how they work.
Maybe I should have mentionned this, but I was thinking about Al-Qaida and other suicide bombers' terrorist actions as an action against a country, and at least in Iraq against the military.
From their point of view, citizens fund the bombs and guns through taxes, and elect the officials who dictate their use. Without taxes, the USA cannot afford the bombs. I know it's not the best reason for killing innocent civilians, but in their eyes no one is innocent. Everyone has played a role in this.
I am obviously against terrorism, I just think the latest Bin Laden tape sheds a lot of light on his psyche and the psyche of others who feel similar to him. There are two sides to every story, and I cannot believe that these people are just doing this for the sake of doing it.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
Of course you can't defeat terrorism but you can limit it by effectively destroying the abilitly to coordinate a large attack. (by capturing key operatives or freezing their assets or what ever).
It was patently obvious he was trying to influence the election. If you pander to his wishes now, that encourages him to become bolder and threaten other things in exchange for concessions. If you want a really good example of how this can go horribly wrong you only need to look to the lead up to the 2nd World War when the Allies conceded half of Europe to Hitler before deciding that he had gained too many concessions and by then it was almost too late.
we are the brand new beatniks. we are the down and outers.
we are the bleeding hearts, beating syncopated, broken rhythm.
our speed is often break neck. we need to slow it down.
tired of being sleepless. tired of being broken.
We are similar in opposite ends of the spectrum. Interesting. But, at least I have people that I talk to in "reality" that share my views.
