Who are you voting for? (Canada)
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closeyoureyes
- Oskar Winner: 2006
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Joe Cooler
lemonphile4 wrote:Joe Cool wrote:I believe its wrong and the choice a mother has should not overide the life of her baby.
One of my friends and I had this talk a few days ago. What she's majoring in basically prepares you to become a politician. We were talking about how politicians always say they are against abortion but are pro choice as well.
She had an interesting point- abortions are always going to happen, whether they are done legally in a clinic or illegally in an alley. She'd rather give people access to a clinic where at least there would be less risk of something going wrong than on a dirty street with few safety measures for anyone.
Killing a child in an alley is the same as killing a child in a clinic. Something is going wrong in both cases. A child who has no choice in the matter is getting destroyed.
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happening fish
- Oskar Winner: 2006
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Joe Cooler
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starseed_10
- Oskar Winner: 2005
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Starseed3333
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starseed_10
- Oskar Winner: 2005
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but you live on fake street, won't you miss your neighborhood?
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
Joe Cool wrote:Why not use the money that would go towards Abortion clinics to educate people. Why do mothers feel that they must kill thier child in the first place? Whats stopping a mother from putting her child up for adoption? Thats an option people seem to forget about.
what's causing them to kill their baby is conservtive values that prevent them from recieving much government aid in raising their child alone.
Noto say i'm pro-choice, i am neither considering that i am not a woman, i will never have to make that choice, and therefor cannot understand, meaning i have no say.
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Joe Cooler
Conservative Values? Even if that is true there is the option of adoption. I dont care how poor or how uncapable a mother is when it comes to raising a child. That doesnt justify killing it. Abortion clinics make it seem like a mother does not have to be accountable for their actions. They make a mistake and get pregant when they shouldnt be so they simply take the easy way out and abort the child. They kill it and make that child pay for their mistake.
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Axtech
- Oskar Lifetime Achievement Award: 2004
- Posts: 19796
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- Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
I've already written a few posts replying to this thread, but I keep deleting them because there's no point debating this issue. It's a massive moral grey area.
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Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down, I'll find the way to peace and openness.
"Robbo" - © Alex (happeningfish)...^5 ^5 v v
Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down, I'll find the way to peace and openness.
"Robbo" - © Alex (happeningfish)...^5 ^5 v v
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Joe Cooler
I AM ME wrote:Noto say i'm pro-choice, i am neither considering that i am not a woman, i will never have to make that choice, and therefor cannot understand, meaning i have no say.
one comment on this type of reasoning....
do you have to commit a murder to know if it's right or wrong?
the fact that you'll never be in the position to have an abortion does not negate your right to have an opinion on the issue, nor does it decrease the value of your arguments.
<p align="center">[glow=black]Beggars stare at the brand new sneakers on the[/glow]
[glow=white]Anarchists[/glow] [glow=black]and_[/glow][glow=white]celebrity speakers[/glow]
[glow=black]These are improbable days my friends[/glow]</p>
[glow=white]Anarchists[/glow] [glow=black]and_[/glow][glow=white]celebrity speakers[/glow]
[glow=black]These are improbable days my friends[/glow]</p>
i knew someone was going to bring that up.
Fine i suppose your right, but i just don't feel like i'm in the position to crucify anyone. I've never had to be in that situation so i can't call down decisions people make.
It all comes down to whether you believe a mass of cells is a person. And also some situations such as rape, or chance of the mother's death add in as factors.
Last minute abortions are definatly wrong in my view, because it is clearly a small human being, which could live outside the mother. But anything past that is iffy.
Therefore i don't have an opinion about either end of it, excpet last minute abortions.
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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closeyoureyes
- Oskar Winner: 2006
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- Joined: 8/2/2003, 1:36 pm
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Axtech
- Oskar Lifetime Achievement Award: 2004
- Posts: 19796
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 5:36 pm
- Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
doug wrote:I AM ME wrote:Noto say i'm pro-choice, i am neither considering that i am not a woman, i will never have to make that choice, and therefor cannot understand, meaning i have no say.
one comment on this type of reasoning....
do you have to commit a murder to know if it's right or wrong?
the fact that you'll never be in the position to have an abortion does not negate your right to have an opinion on the issue, nor does it decrease the value of your arguments.
Plus, the baby is made up of as much Dad as it is Mom.
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Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down, I'll find the way to peace and openness.
"Robbo" - © Alex (happeningfish)...^5 ^5 v v
Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down, I'll find the way to peace and openness.
"Robbo" - © Alex (happeningfish)...^5 ^5 v v
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Joe Cooler
a sinead for everyone7 wrote:Yeah i think Abortions are murder from the time a fetus can live outside its mother. Before that, its just a mass of cells.
Mass of cells? It may not be able to live on its own but its certainly alive and it certainly will grow into a child.
Even by week 6 a heart has started to beat and the internal organs begin to take shape.
By week 10 facial features as well as limps are evident. The nervous system is responsive and the eternal organs start working.
By week 14 the child or fetus can be seem moving within the womb.
Week 18 the child is able to blink move around, move her mouth and has hair growing on her body
Its only by week 26 that a child even has chance of living outside the womb. However only 50% would survive at this time in a country like Canada or the States. So your saying anything before week 26 (which is a very, very early birth) is just a mass of cells? I think thats quite a understatement.
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Axtech
- Oskar Lifetime Achievement Award: 2004
- Posts: 19796
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 5:36 pm
- Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
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You're just a mass of cells. I'm just a mass of cells. It can easily be argued that all killing is justified.
[/existentialism]
Anyways, this is all dependent on how you define a person.
Also, I don't think it's fair to take away abortions completely when there's such a large section of the population that believes in it. As moral relativism would dictate, we can't take away something that someone else believes in just because we don't believe in it - unless it's harming other unwilling people.
Again, the definition of a person comes into play, which is a massive grey area. At what point does a puddle of ejaculate fluid and a lifeless cell become a human? Once a sperm and a cell combine? I hardly think anyone would call this new cell a person. Once there's two of these cells? Three?
[/existentialism]
Anyways, this is all dependent on how you define a person.
Also, I don't think it's fair to take away abortions completely when there's such a large section of the population that believes in it. As moral relativism would dictate, we can't take away something that someone else believes in just because we don't believe in it - unless it's harming other unwilling people.
Again, the definition of a person comes into play, which is a massive grey area. At what point does a puddle of ejaculate fluid and a lifeless cell become a human? Once a sperm and a cell combine? I hardly think anyone would call this new cell a person. Once there's two of these cells? Three?
- -
Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down, I'll find the way to peace and openness.
"Robbo" - © Alex (happeningfish)...^5 ^5 v v
Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down, I'll find the way to peace and openness.
"Robbo" - © Alex (happeningfish)...^5 ^5 v v
exactly, and if we decide when a bundle of cells is human, such as when it begins to grow organs. Then 10 years after people will argue that it is human before that point. After all the description used to only apply t o a baby once it was born.
And if it is a blow against god because we are changing the overall purpose and taking a unborn life. Then is it not the same thing when the bible belt executes hundreds of inmates? Is that not defying God's will?
And if it is a blow against god because we are changing the overall purpose and taking a unborn life. Then is it not the same thing when the bible belt executes hundreds of inmates? Is that not defying God's will?
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Joe Cooler
Axtech wrote:You're just a mass of cells. I'm just a mass of cells. It can easily be argued that all killing is justified.
[/existentialism]
Anyways, this is all dependent on how you define a person.
Also, I don't think it's fair to take away abortions completely when there's such a large section of the population that believes in it. As moral relativism would dictate, we can't take away something that someone else believes in just because we don't believe in it - unless it's harming other unwilling people.
Again, the definition of a person comes into play, which is a massive grey area. At what point does a puddle of ejaculate fluid and a lifeless cell become a human? Once a sperm and a cell combine? I hardly think anyone would call this new cell a person. Once there's two of these cells? Three?
The thing is an abortion is harming people, its harming the child within. So like you said it comes down to how you define a person. However once that cell is concieved it WILL eventually become a person. Its merely developing and by aborting you are stopping that life from ever getting a chance. Even if you dont believe that 3 cells defines a person, the line must be drawn. Like I mentioned before its a very small number of weeks untill the fetus starts devolping human characteristics and is able to think. So is it ok to kill a 7 week old fetus? 2? 1? The best possible place to draw the line is to eliminate abortion all together.
