US passes a bill to outlaw partial-birth abortions

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 3/15/2003, 7:57 pm

clumsy_congressman wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Huh?

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 3/15/2003, 10:14 pm

Johnathan! Where's this :Johnathan:

dude?

sandsleeper · Post by **sandsleeper** » 3/15/2003, 10:31 pm

yeah i went and named him after you, the least you could do is use him!

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 3/15/2003, 10:49 pm

sorry I forgot!

:Johnathan:

robcore · Post by **robcore** » 3/16/2003, 12:42 am

I have a friend with a bad menstrual cycle. The pill is helping regulate that so she CAN have babies.

Abortions on the other hand, are wrong. Just because you were too irresponsible in the past doesn't mean a living being should be harmed because of it. Just because you were stupid, doesn't mean the person who did nothign to deserve death should get it.

Joey · Post by **Joey** » 3/16/2003, 12:44 am

*applauds*

Well said

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 3/16/2003, 12:49 am

Agreed. But what gets itchy is how you define "living being". A zygote has no thoughts, feelings, or any other attributes of being alive, let alone human. Without the mother it could not survive. Aborting it is not murdering anything, just as eating scrambled eggs for breakfast isn't murdering "what could have become chickens".

I'm against abortion after the 2nd trimester. BUT. I don't think the government should legislate it. My personal morals shouldn't be forced upon others.

robcore · Post by **robcore** » 3/16/2003, 2:17 am

GetTheFeelingNow wrote:Agreed. But what gets itchy is how you define "living being". A zygote has no thoughts, feelings, or any other attributes of being alive, let alone human. Without the mother it could not survive. Aborting it is not murdering anything, just as eating scrambled eggs for breakfast isn't murdering "what could have become chickens".

I'm against abortion after the 2nd trimester. BUT. I don't think the government should legislate it. My personal morals shouldn't be forced upon others.

Chickens are not sentient, humans are. We do not kill other humans and consider it immoral because we have the ability to reason and ask why. Chicken eggs are not going to become creatures who think and have feelings, human zygotes are. It's the same thing as killing a grown man.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 3/16/2003, 2:19 am

oh man...abortion, i'm not touching this topic with a 100 foot pole. :freak:

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 3/16/2003, 2:31 am

jo_mamma86 wrote:
GetTheFeelingNow wrote:Agreed. But what gets itchy is how you define "living being". A zygote has no thoughts, feelings, or any other attributes of being alive, let alone human. Without the mother it could not survive. Aborting it is not murdering anything, just as eating scrambled eggs for breakfast isn't murdering "what could have become chickens".

I'm against abortion after the 2nd trimester. BUT. I don't think the government should legislate it. My personal morals shouldn't be forced upon others.

Chickens are not sentient, humans are. We do not kill other humans and consider it immoral because we have the ability to reason and ask why. Chicken eggs are not going to become creatures who think and have feelings, human zygotes are. It's the same thing as killing a grown man.

With that line of thinking, you should also ban spermicide, and any woman who goes through a menstrual period without getting pregnant should be penalized. After all, those wasted gametes could have, given the right circumstances, become people. Zygotes are no more "human" than any other group of cells. Just because they could, in the future, become something we call human, doesn't mean they should have the same rights as a human. I sure as hell am not about to give up my freedom of choice in favor of the "rights" some group of cells inside me that has all the same properties as a tumor.

BUT. Arguing about it is pointless, since nobody's going to change the other's opinion on the matter.

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 3/16/2003, 3:12 am

jo_mamma86 wrote:Chickens are not sentient, humans are. We do not kill other humans and consider it immoral because we have the ability to reason and ask why. Chicken eggs are not going to become creatures who think and have feelings, human zygotes are. It's the same thing as killing a grown man.

actually animals have feelings and they think

but thats not the reason for my posting.. lol.. i just wanted to ask your opinion on embryionic stem cell research.. actually just not yours.. everyones opinion on this matter.. living in a household where my dads an engineer, my mom majored in bio and chem, im majoring in bio and my bro .. well he's just young so he doesnt count (b4 i piss off anyone who's younger than me.. im 7 years older than him.. bite me).. in addition to all my other family members who are like.. doctors or scientists.. we had a few heated arguments about this subject over the holidays.. i just want opinions of others my age relatively speaking (the person other than my bro closest in age to me at the time to take part is 9 years older than me and is currently working towards his Ph D)

and another thing.. aerin

BUT. Arguing about it is pointless, since nobody's going to change the other's opinion on the matter.

well put. this is unfortunately one of those important subjects where this holds true. not the only subject but one where its most true

Neil · Post by **Neil** » 3/16/2003, 6:27 am

was just messing w/ ya Johnathan.....

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 3/16/2003, 9:55 am

oh

as for abortion, is just plain wrong. Who knows what that zygot coulda been? He coulda been another great person to record into the annals of time.

That doesnt sounds corny does it?

bovine · Post by **bovine** » 3/16/2003, 10:28 am

I am pro-choice and anti abortion. I do not see abortion as murder, but rather a lesser form of suicide. While I don't agree with abortion (or suicide) I don't believe that the gov't should have the right to restrict that ability. I don't think it becomes murder until the fetus is completly separated (physically) from the mother.

Oh, to those of you who are pro-life, do you eat eggs? Just wondering because if you do, I think that's really hypocritical..think about it

:::troy:::

bovine · Post by **bovine** » 3/16/2003, 10:30 am

lol, I didn't read the whole thread, so I didn't know the chicken thing was already brought up...sorry about that :oops:

Glad someone else thought the same thing though!

Endymion · Post by **Endymion** » 3/16/2003, 10:49 am

bovine wrote:I am pro-choice and anti abortion. I do not see abortion as murder, but rather a lesser form of suicide. While I don't agree with abortion (or suicide) I don't believe that the gov't should have the right to restrict that ability. I don't think it becomes murder until the fetus is completly separated (physically) from the mother.

Oh, to those of you who are pro-life, do you eat eggs? Just wondering because if you do, I think that's really hypocritical..think about it

:::troy:::

the eggs that you eat are unfertilized naturally, I believe. They use the fertilized eggs to get more unfertilized eggs from other chickens.

and besides, "really" should probably be replaced with "somewhat" in regards to their hypocrisy, even if they were fertilized. I hardly think that animals and humans can be compared.

it's not a religious issue at all, for me. Pretty much just common sense. Abortions should be incredibly rare and incredibly justified.

Post by **faninor** » 3/16/2003, 12:18 pm

I'm against abortion later on in pregnancy. If abortions can be justified by saying that it isn't alive yet, then I think once the fetus gets to a point where it could survive without the mother, it is alive and an abortion is no longer justified. If you can kill the baby and justify it because it wasn't alive, there was one life before and one life now so nobody has been murdered, you should be able to justify killing the mother and saving the baby . . . it was only one life the entire time, after all.

And it is not at all hypocritical to eat eggs. Most of the pro-life people who eat eggs also eat chicken.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/16/2003, 3:10 pm

Eggs aren't fertalized. Vegetarians eat eggs.
It's like saying that when a woman has her period every month, she's having an abortion. Uhhh no.

And again. Simple solution. Day after pill. It is not abortion. Do whatever to you can in your local community to put it on pharmacy shelves!

starseed_10 · Post by **starseed_10** » 3/16/2003, 3:34 pm

a zygote is human, even if it doesnt have feelings. Its murder in my eyes to have an abortion. If the government can make murder illegal, than they should be able to make this illegal as well. Abortion sucks.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 3/16/2003, 4:19 pm

I think your opinion would change greatly if you were a young girl who had been raped and was about to lose her body and her normal life because some governmental type who will never meet her decided that a cluster of cells is more important than she is.

Her body, her choice. That being said, I don't think abortions should be performed after the fetus has the ability to live seperately from the mother.... not that this should be the government's concern, anyway...