Doing My Term Paper for Lit Class...

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named · Post by **He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named** » 4/1/2004, 6:59 pm

On "Spiritual Machines" and it's relation to the book by Ray Kurzweil.

Any hints? Advice? Sexual favors?

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 4/1/2004, 7:01 pm

well what do you need to know?

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named · Post by **He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named** » 4/1/2004, 7:48 pm

Well, I don't think I will have time to read the whole book, but if you have read it, could you tell me which passages reminded you the most of Spiritual Machines (the CD)?

bovine · Post by **bovine** » 4/1/2004, 9:20 pm

Well, you do know that all of the spoken tracks from SM are directly from the book, right? The book was pretty deep and, I have to admit, I didn't understand all of it. However, one theme I found perticularly interesting was that of neural-net computers. They are being designed to replicate the human brain. In theory, these computers will actually be able to "learn" from their mistakes. I think it was the same computers that wrote poetry and created artwork. There's some actual samples of some completly computer generated poetry and art. What they did was "told" or "showed" the computer various works from famous poets and/or artists and the computer would take the basic form (the "look" of the art or the "sound"/"flow" of the poems) and created something in the same style, but still totally unique. Very cool IMO! I think that there's a link to streaming video of an interview Kurzweil did along with Mike and Raine up at http://www.emtee.org well, I know there used to be a link, not sure if it's still there.

:::troy:::

clumsychild_ · Post by **clumsychild_** » 4/1/2004, 10:00 pm

I just read it and I have to write my Media ISP on it this weekend. :uh:

Some parts were really great, his various predictions in the last section of the book were fascinating. It was very well written and extremely well researched. Although, like ^ I must say I found some parts rather difficult to understand, Kurzweil goes into such depth with the computer aspect and I found it a little confusing. Good book, nonetheless.

I don't think that helped. :uhh:

hpdfk · Post by **hpdfk** » 4/1/2004, 10:21 pm

There's a part I liked where he explained the technological aspect of spirituality. He talked about how there are these nerves called the "god spot" which are directly related to sprituality. When it comes down to it, everything we do know matter how abstract and intangible is a bunch of gears in our brain. Machines will have the capacity to love and hate and find deeper meaning as well.
He also talks about a machine that make music that matches your brainwaves. That causes the reflection done in meditation. It's a cool section. It's in part two as I recall.

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named · Post by **He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named** » 4/1/2004, 10:35 pm

Thanks a lot everyone, I'll pay extra attention to those sections.

Is it a long read?

hpdfk · Post by **hpdfk** » 4/1/2004, 10:45 pm

yes. I'll be honest, skip part one. It's for the most part boring. It mainly talked about algorithms and evolution theories. some of that stuff is interesting but the gold is in parts two and three.

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 4/1/2004, 11:01 pm

I found the book fascinating. I am reading it again :nod:

hpdfk · Post by **hpdfk** » 4/1/2004, 11:02 pm

I reread sections all the time. Some of that stuff is unreal.

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 4/1/2004, 11:09 pm

And what sections are those?

hpdfk · Post by **hpdfk** » 4/1/2004, 11:11 pm

usually parts two and three. Those are the most captivating. Your bombarded with all these great ideas at once so one read and most of them are forgotten.

I need to buy a new book eventually :oops:

MrFeynman · Post by **MrFeynman** » 4/2/2004, 1:49 am

He also talks about a machine that make music that matches your brainwaves. That causes the reflection done in meditation. It's a cool section. It's in part two as I recall.

I'm reading the book right now and I found that little section particularly interesting. Kurzweil definitely seems to believe in the mechinization of human thought, spirituality and experience. It's scary to think that everything we consider special to humanity (ie: love, compassion, religious transcendence) can be represented with step by step algorithms.

Kurzweil also talks about how, due to the exponential increase in computer power, technology will surpass the computational capacity of the human brain, and then leap far beyond our capabilities. To me the songs Made to Heal, Right Behind You, and The Wonderful Future deal with this theme.

I like the fact that Ray Kurzweil has built his career around developing technology to help people with disabilities, and that he thinks that in the future these types of technologies will continue to improve. He presents powerful ideas about the intertwining of technology and humanity, and a sort of symbiosis that will inevitably result from this. I think most of the songs on Spiritual Machines have some thematic elements from these ideas.

And just thinking about these possibilities and listening to the music makes my thoughts start swirling, and I wonder how this inspiration could ever be synthesized.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 4/2/2004, 6:46 am

Ugh, don't listen to the "skip part one" people. Read the whole book or don't read it at all...

trentm32 · Post by **trentm32** » 4/2/2004, 10:39 am

I'm kinda with Rob on that one; you really need the foundation he lays in part one to get the rest good.

*pulls out SM to re-read*

hpdfk · Post by **hpdfk** » 4/2/2004, 10:46 am

Part One's important, I just meant for Makiaveli to skip it since he seems like he had limited time to read it.
Part one is neccesary for complete understanding of the book. And it has some pretty charts in it.
BTW, I'm the only one who said it so feel free to direct critism at me. :nod:

In regards to what Mr. Feynman said, I think he's right on. Where are you in the book? Because you'll soon learn that disabilities, or our physical beings for that matter, will be of unimportance.
I suppose your right about RBY. Although I always thought of it as the Luddite movment in the Luddite's eyes. The downside of technology always seemed like the theme to the song, and the *thing that must not be named* proves it.

In regards to the symbiosis, listen to the hidden track. I think that shows the ultimate binding between man and machine.

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named · Post by **He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named** » 4/2/2004, 1:49 pm

Thanks for the info guys.

Anyway, I got to thinking about it and I believe Raine and Kurzweil each mean a different thing by "Spiritual Machines".

Kurzweil is talking about the humanization (and beyond) of machines, while I believe Raine is taking it into a negative context and talking about the machinization of humans. Humans are the supreme beings of our planet and the soul is a belief extending since the beginning of time. But everything is becoming routine, like clockwork. Like a machine.

Songs like "In Repair" are a good example. Oftentimes humans treat each other like a machine made for their pleasure instead of a unique being. This isn't really referring to a person's family or friends, but to the strangers you'd encounter every day. The cashier at the store, the guy walking down the street. Do we ever really think about that person other than just a little blip in time and space? Raine even takes this thought to a doctor and his patients. "Like a machine I'll fix you from the start". Briefly, a doctor goes to school, learns ("understands") surgical procedures, and then performs them on humans. Does a doctor in today's society (and especially the future) ever truly think about what he (or she)'s doing?

Deep stuff.

MrFeynman · Post by **MrFeynman** » 4/2/2004, 7:34 pm

Sounds like you're gonna have an interesting paper. Will you post it for us to read ??

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 4/2/2004, 8:01 pm

I also love the transition in the pre-chorus:

"While they open up your heart"

to

"While they order up new parts"

I think that's symbolizing our transition from a society of human beings to a society of beings of a different kind - still as caring and compassionate (very humanist qualities), but with mechanical bodies.

I've always thought of In Repair as the quintessential track on the album. I think it really sums up the point of the album; it's about the transitions from the present world to the future world, and the pros and cons of it all. In Repair takes our view, that of humanity. Then the other songs take on more specific views.