the municipal government of a suburb of the city i live in passes a new law creating a CURFEW for anybody under 18. minors are no longer allowed out in public between 1am and 6am.
the bill passed by a vote of 5-3, and the mayor was one of the dissenting voices. "this is a sad and dark day" were her words and she went on to rightly point out that the RCMP is already undermanned and certainly doesn't have time to waste policing a draconian curfew law.
oddly enough the youth population of the city appears to be split on the issue, with support coming in for the law almost as rapidly as dissent. very discomforting when you think about what kind of thought process supporters of a fucking CURFEW must be like.
scary, if people will allow politicians to do this, what won't they allow? amazing how far back our tolerance for the states intrustion into our lives has been pressed. 300 years ago a law like this would've been INSTANT DEATH for any politician that so much as suggested it.
Just weeks after the release of V..
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starvingeyes
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Random Name
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Eh. Mount Pearl (which is like a sub-division of St. John's. Really they'd like to think they are their own city but they are located right on top of St. John's and just leach off our resources) has an 11pm curfew. It doesn't really do much other than give people a reason to complain. 1am is really good in comparison.
-Sarah
Goodbye you liar,
Well you sipped from the cup but you don't own up to anything
Then you think you will inspire
Take apart your head
(and I wish I could inspire)
Take apart your demons, then you add it to the list.
Goodbye you liar,
Well you sipped from the cup but you don't own up to anything
Then you think you will inspire
Take apart your head
(and I wish I could inspire)
Take apart your demons, then you add it to the list.
In principle, I disagree with the law (that's the one just passed by Strathcona county, right?). Age descrimination is no different then racism, IMO, and assuming that all young people on the streets at night are going to cause mayhem is seriously misguided.
On the other hand, being over 18 now, I have to admit that I am somewhat apathetic toward the issue. I might have been out protesting a couple years ago, but because it doesn't affect me I just don't really care enough to be vocal.
On the other hand, being over 18 now, I have to admit that I am somewhat apathetic toward the issue. I might have been out protesting a couple years ago, but because it doesn't affect me I just don't really care enough to be vocal.
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Joe Cooler
Illusion wrote:In principle, I disagree with the law (that's the one just passed by Strathcona county, right?). Age descrimination is no different then racism, IMO, and assuming that all young people on the streets at night are going to cause mayhem is seriously misguided.
On the other hand, being over 18 now, I have to admit that I am somewhat apathetic toward the issue. I might have been out protesting a couple years ago, but because it doesn't affect me I just don't really care enough to be vocal.
Ahaha, I agree. Toronto is facing a similar issue. Few years ago I would have been kicking and screaming over such a law. Now, I don't really care... Heck, I think I'd benefit quite a bit... Less line-ups, more room at concerts, not needing to worry about being robber/shot/stabbed. Hm, this is looking better and better. I'm only half kidding.
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Some places here are trying to do that. There was a kid who took the council or whoever to court about it and i think he won. I'll try to find the details tomorrow.
Open your eyes to nights and days, you close them up and float away
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
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Lando
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Joe Cooler wrote:If age descrimination is no different than racism, than why is there a legal drinking age, driving age and age one can legally be married. Do you disagree with those laws on principle?
I don't think that's an appropriate comparison considering those are all based on a big level of responsibility for the individuals.
Staying out past 1 am doesn't mean you're doing something wrong or are endangering yourself or others or committing to something that requires a lot of maturity and responsibility such as marriage, driving or drinking.
For instance, I was working a Night Shift job before the age of 18. Just to go to work and return home I'd be in violation of curfew. Curfews are discrimination because it shouldn't be the decision of the community to decide what time people of minor age or any age for that matter are allowed their freedom.
As far as minors go, it should be the responsibility of their parents to decide what time they want their children to be home, some nights those set times might change too, a law however won't change to accomodate different situations, it just strips people of their rights.
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Kathy
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I'm not completely decided on this issue...
Last week in Toronto a 12 year old girl was stabbed after 2am at an all ages nightclub party by another 12 year old girl. People were upset when the story came out, and even more upset when they found out both parents had given their girls permission to be there. In the words of a city councillor "that's even worse!!" A lot of people believe some parents are not making the right decisionss, and that cities should make decisions for them.
On the other hand, when I was 15 I was baby-sitting until 2am and then walking home, and when I was 16-18 I worked in fast food restaurants until 2 and 3am. In each of these cases I would have been violating such a curfew.
Last week in Toronto a 12 year old girl was stabbed after 2am at an all ages nightclub party by another 12 year old girl. People were upset when the story came out, and even more upset when they found out both parents had given their girls permission to be there. In the words of a city councillor "that's even worse!!" A lot of people believe some parents are not making the right decisionss, and that cities should make decisions for them.
On the other hand, when I was 15 I was baby-sitting until 2am and then walking home, and when I was 16-18 I worked in fast food restaurants until 2 and 3am. In each of these cases I would have been violating such a curfew.
<I><B>"I know this sounds corny, and I might be a little bit drunk, but honest to god, thank you everybody"</B></I>
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Joe Cooler
Lando wrote:Joe Cooler wrote:If age descrimination is no different than racism, than why is there a legal drinking age, driving age and age one can legally be married. Do you disagree with those laws on principle?
I don't think that's an appropriate comparison considering those are all based on a big level of responsibility for the individuals.
Staying out past 1 am doesn't mean you're doing something wrong or are endangering yourself or others or committing to something that requires a lot of maturity and responsibility such as marriage, driving or drinking.
For instance, I was working a Night Shift job before the age of 18. Just to go to work and return home I'd be in violation of curfew. Curfews are discrimination because it shouldn't be the decision of the community to decide what time people of minor age or any age for that matter are allowed their freedom.
As far as minors go, it should be the responsibility of their parents to decide what time they want their children to be home, some nights those set times might change too, a law however won't change to accomodate different situations, it just strips people of their rights.
Yes, I completely agree. However, I disagree with the notion that age prejudice is the same as racism. Age regulated rules are generally based on the level of maturity a certain activity requires. While I completely disagree with the curfew law, I agree with many other age related laws. I might be making something out of nothing but there it is.
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beautiful liar
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Almost everywhere I ever lived had a curfew. It doesn't matter if you're walking around after hours, say between babysitting and home, but it does mean that concerts and things would end before curfew, and if a group of kids were loitering they'd be sent on their way. It made me feel safer when I did need to walk from babysitting to home. I do disagree with curfews - but honestly for the most part you don't even notice it exists. There aren't many things for under 18s to do out that late anyways when many entertainments require you to be over it anyways - such as clubs and bars.
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closeyoureyes
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Joe Cooler wrote:If age descrimination is no different than racism, than why is there a legal drinking age, driving age and age one can legally be married. Do you disagree with those laws on principle?
Yeah, I see what you're saying. I probably should re-state my post.
In this particular case, I feel that it is quite similar to racism. Young people are not allowed to have a drivers license or get married because they are considered to be "too immature"; whereas with the curfew, all youth are being slapped with the label of being a criminal. A child/teen is no more likely to be a criminal then an adult is, and yet the children are being descriminated against while the adult's are allowed to roam free. This isn't the case when we're talking about brain maturity, where it is easily proven that adults have a greater maturity level then children (this justifies the age descrimination involved in getting a drivers license/marriage).
So, because a person's tendency to be a criminal does not relate to one's age, assuming that a child is more likely to be a criminal then an adult is no different then assuming that a person of a certain racial descent is more likely to be a criminal then a person of a different race.
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happening fish
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You should probably do some research before you talk, because the category at the highest risk for criminal behaviour is young males around 17-22. A teen IS more likely to be a criminal than an adult is. A person's tendency to be a criminal DOES relate to one's age.
awkward is the new cool
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[url]gutterhome.blogspot.com[/url]
I still think this is a ridiculous violation of rights, and although I'm no anarchist like Chris (somewhat socialist actually), I think it is utterly facist and wrong for any government to enforce such rules. Outside of extreme circumstances a curfew should never be forced upon anyone.
As for what young people are doing out that late, when i was 16 and 17, i regularily stayed out well past 1:00. Hell I probably stayed out later then then now. I wasn't out drinking for the most part, neither was I doing drugs, or commiting crimes. I was enjoying time with my friends, out with girlfriends, watching movies, etc. I probably had many of the most meaniful converstaions of my life late at night.
Perhaps it's because I'm from a city of around 60,000 people and I don't understand bigger city centre's, but as long as my parents knew where I was, and what I was doing I don't see the issue. Why don't our police spend their time stopping crimes and patrolling the streets, instead of harrassing young people? It's a parent's and other mentors job to instill values, morals, and common sense in their children. A government should keep it's populace safe, but not infringe upon family's rights to make their own choices.
Anyways, dumb law, and way to much money and time to enforce while way worse shit is going on.
As for what young people are doing out that late, when i was 16 and 17, i regularily stayed out well past 1:00. Hell I probably stayed out later then then now. I wasn't out drinking for the most part, neither was I doing drugs, or commiting crimes. I was enjoying time with my friends, out with girlfriends, watching movies, etc. I probably had many of the most meaniful converstaions of my life late at night.
Perhaps it's because I'm from a city of around 60,000 people and I don't understand bigger city centre's, but as long as my parents knew where I was, and what I was doing I don't see the issue. Why don't our police spend their time stopping crimes and patrolling the streets, instead of harrassing young people? It's a parent's and other mentors job to instill values, morals, and common sense in their children. A government should keep it's populace safe, but not infringe upon family's rights to make their own choices.
Anyways, dumb law, and way to much money and time to enforce while way worse shit is going on.
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
Another thing I'd like to point out.
In Manitoba you could use statistic's to prove that most agressive and violent crimes were commited by young aboriginal males. Therefore, does that mean that all young aboriginal males should have certain restrictions applied to their rights in order to protect everyone else? Would that be right?
It wouldn't, because it would be discrimination, and infringing on personal rights. There's always social reason's behind statistics that never get addressed. So we use easy fixes, out of ignorance to often because we're to lazy to adress the real issues in society.
In Manitoba you could use statistic's to prove that most agressive and violent crimes were commited by young aboriginal males. Therefore, does that mean that all young aboriginal males should have certain restrictions applied to their rights in order to protect everyone else? Would that be right?
It wouldn't, because it would be discrimination, and infringing on personal rights. There's always social reason's behind statistics that never get addressed. So we use easy fixes, out of ignorance to often because we're to lazy to adress the real issues in society.
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4699095.stm
This is the 15 year old who went to court to challenge the curfew where he lived.
This is the 15 year old who went to court to challenge the curfew where he lived.
Open your eyes to nights and days, you close them up and float away
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
It seems kind of silly to me.
Having said that no one under the age of 13 should really have any reason to be out that late anyways (barriing exceptional circumstances) I wonder if the clause "unless accompanied by an adult" is inserted in there somewhere. I would assume it is somewhere since a blanket curfew would be absolutely retarded.
Officer, I was escorting my son home from my own 40th birthday party...
I'm sorry ma'am, that's no excuse, you should have locked him in the closet instead FINED!
Having said that no one under the age of 13 should really have any reason to be out that late anyways (barriing exceptional circumstances) I wonder if the clause "unless accompanied by an adult" is inserted in there somewhere. I would assume it is somewhere since a blanket curfew would be absolutely retarded.
Officer, I was escorting my son home from my own 40th birthday party...
I'm sorry ma'am, that's no excuse, you should have locked him in the closet instead FINED!
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starvingeyes
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1. i have read FAR too much annecdotal evidence in this thread. your own personal experiences with curfews or what you did at 1am when you were 16 or your friend got robbed by etc. is all irrelevant. it cannot be proven and as such has no place in a proper debate.
2. the number one problem i have with this law (outside of the fact that it is a law, obviously) is that it restricts freedom of movement. who, what time and for "what purpose" are at present time not relevant. the fact is, when you allow the state to start restricting when and where you can move, you are allowing the possibility for INCREDIBLE abuses.
all people have the right to move without being agressed against. this curfew violates that right. i do not care if "you don't mind", or "it's not that big a deal" to you, that is not an argument. the fact is, this is an incredbily intrusive rights violation. for those of you who "don't mind' etc., i challenge you to support your position:
what makes you think you have the right to make that call for somebody else? what makes you think you have the right to punish a person for a crime they haven't even committed yet?
curfews are one of the main tools of the totalitarian government, them and gun control, and some of you apparently support both. this scares the living shit out of me.
2. the number one problem i have with this law (outside of the fact that it is a law, obviously) is that it restricts freedom of movement. who, what time and for "what purpose" are at present time not relevant. the fact is, when you allow the state to start restricting when and where you can move, you are allowing the possibility for INCREDIBLE abuses.
all people have the right to move without being agressed against. this curfew violates that right. i do not care if "you don't mind", or "it's not that big a deal" to you, that is not an argument. the fact is, this is an incredbily intrusive rights violation. for those of you who "don't mind' etc., i challenge you to support your position:
what makes you think you have the right to make that call for somebody else? what makes you think you have the right to punish a person for a crime they haven't even committed yet?
curfews are one of the main tools of the totalitarian government, them and gun control, and some of you apparently support both. this scares the living shit out of me.
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starvingeyes
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Chanandler Bong wrote:Well, I for one fail to see how a curfew can scare you. Does this curfew affect you? Personally, I think this whole curfew thing is just silly and pointless.
sorry, you think the curfew is silly and pointless? or the resistance?
and yes it affects me. this is the gateway to hell! preventing this type of law from being passed is a top priority.
and i'm sorry, curfews DON'T scare you? why not?