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Korzic
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So this guy said...

Post by Korzic »

Child-abuse scandals, boring church services and institutional distrust have blackened the name of the Anglican Church in Australia and impeded its mission of conversion, according to the Archbishop of Sydney, Dr Peter Jensen.

Last night, at the opening of the church's annual meeting, Dr Jensen said society had become resistant to the Gospel.

Australians, particularly those aged 10 to 30, were "deeply unwilling" to commit to religion because of the restrictions it imposed on moral freedoms.

The sheer busyness of life left people with little time to attend Sunday services and there was great ignorance of the Bible.

Meanwhile, the "wonderful work" of the church had been tarnished by child-abuse cover-ups and bad experiences of boring and irrelevant church services.


Agree? Disagree? Discuss with fervour. I for one agree with everything he says there.
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happening fish
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Post by happening fish »

I agree, but I like it that way. Heh.
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Post by I AM ME »

:nod:
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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closeyoureyes
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Post by closeyoureyes »

I agree very much with the article, and it makes me very sad that people have made religion so socially and politically incorrect and "loserish" when followed.
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Post by starseed_10 »

:nod:
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Joe Cooler

Post by Joe Cooler »

Yes I agree there is a great ignorance of the Bible and it's claims and teachings.

Yes I agree that people are unwilling to commit to church. The church deals in absolutes which makes many people uncomfortable. People want the truth to be relative.

Yes I agree the anglican church image has been tarnished.

I disagree with the statement that Anglican church services are irrelevant. Based on my experiences in an Anglican church, I'd say they can be quite relevant. To all those who "agreed with everything," how many of you have actually BEEN to an Anglican Church service. My guess is very few, if any of you have. Most of you are probably basing your agreements on the news, or your experiences with other denominational groups rather than first hand experience.
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Post by starseed_10 »

oh. i was agreeing that a lot of people approach religion that way. i dont actually think irrelevant or boring church services can be used an excuse. Or that people simply can't fit in church services because they're busy. But society definitely falls into the trends that he's talking about.

and i have been to an anglican service. it was okay. not that i have much of an opinion on it.
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Post by I AM ME »

Joe Cooler wrote:Yes I agree there is a great ignorance of the Bible and it's claims and teachings.

Yes I agree that people are unwilling to commit to church. The church deals in absolutes which makes many people uncomfortable. People want the truth to be relative.

Yes I agree the anglican church image has been tarnished.

I disagree with the statement that Anglican church services are irrelevant. Based on my experiences in an Anglican church, I'd say they can be quite relevant. To all those who "agreed with everything," how many of you have actually BEEN to an Anglican Church service. My guess is very few, if any of you have. Most of you are probably basing your agreements on the news, or your experiences with other denominational groups rather than first hand experience.


Religion doesn't need to be about absolutes.

In the modern world more people are becoming Spiritual not Religious.
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Post by Korzic »

Joe Cooler wrote:Yes I agree there is a great ignorance of the Bible and it's claims and teachings.

Yes I agree that people are unwilling to commit to church. The church deals in absolutes which makes many people uncomfortable. People want the truth to be relative.

Yes I agree the anglican church image has been tarnished.

I disagree with the statement that Anglican church services are irrelevant. Based on my experiences in an Anglican church, I'd say they can be quite relevant. To all those who "agreed with everything," how many of you have actually BEEN to an Anglican Church service. My guess is very few, if any of you have. Most of you are probably basing your agreements on the news, or your experiences with other denominational groups rather than first hand experience.


I go to one every weekend. Which kind of makes sense since I have been confirmed and all that. But I think what he is trying to say is that some pastors have a tendency to talk about things past which people cannot necessarily relate to the present day and age.
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Post by thirdhour »

on seventh heaven the pastor always makes the sermon relate! :nod:
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Joe Cooler

Post by Joe Cooler »

I AM ME wrote:Religion doesn't need to be about absolutes.
In the modern world more people are becoming Spiritual not Religious.


I was not talking about "Religion." I was talking about the Christian church. Any church that holds to the doctrine of the Bible WILL deal in absolutes. Yes there are other religions that do not deal with them and they fit very well into the postmodern mindset. However, there is simply no way around absolutes in the Christian chuch unless some serious liberties are taken.
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Post by I AM ME »

true, which is why Spirituality is becoming more popular then Religion
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Post by closeyoureyes »

I think its because people don't want to have to be morally responsible for their actions, personally. Anything goes when you make your own rules.
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Post by I AM ME »

or maybe some people don't believe in all the teachings of one religion. That could be it. Some people find it foolish to devote yourself to everything one source says just because you're trying to find some sort of comfortable meaning to your existance. Most of these new age spiritualists just believe that many religions have some things right, but other parts wrong. If you need to blindly follow doctrines without testing them yourself, then how can you truly, be faithful?
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Post by closeyoureyes »

I am very devoted to my faith but I don't follow it blindly. Also, you don't have to agree with everything to be devoted. I don't.
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Post by I AM ME »

i would say many people would disagree with you on that one.



I just don't understand what's wrong with people forming their own beliefs based on what they have experienced and what they have learned from other religions. I think it's wrong that most people will simply follow whatever faith they were taught as children. How do you know thatsome other belief wouldn't have fit your views better if you only ever learn about one, and have it forced down your throat from birth.
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Post by closeyoureyes »

Whats wrong with being brought up with faith, and having enjoyed it? Just because You don't understand what that feels like doesn't mean other people are blind and brainwashed.
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Post by Random Name »

You know, I never really bothered to read this thread before, but Campbell's original post said something about the church getting a tarnished name, and I can really see that here. There have been so many sexual abuse scandles and stuff like that, its really easy to see why kids would be turned away from the church. And all the teachings that the church has are being criticized in popular culture. Materialism and greed has never been more glamorized.


I also just want to say to sean about folllowing what you were tought when you were young, well thats all we know. People learn to socialize when they are young. They follow example and learn how to function in society. Its when you are young that you learn morals and beliefs. Its easy to grow up believing in something else and then look at another persons beliefs and say 'why would they think that?', but thats just part of culture. It's not so much finding a religion that fits your viewpoint, but when you are young you learn religion is your viewpoint. When you learn something from the time you are very young and believe it to be so even today, and someone else does the same thing with another belief, you can look at them and say that they are wrong but they can look at you and say that you are wrong.
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Post by Joe Cooler »

I AM ME wrote:or maybe some people don't believe in all the teachings of one religion. That could be it. Some people find it foolish to devote yourself to everything one source says just because you're trying to find some sort of comfortable meaning to your existance. Most of these new age spiritualists just believe that many religions have some things right, but other parts wrong. If you need to blindly follow doctrines without testing them yourself, then how can you truly, be faithful?


Testing and questioning doctrine should be encouraged. It often results in an increase of faith as the individual discovers how their religion is relevant and meaningful in a modern context. For example, an individual may struggle with the claims of their religion and the claims of science. Only through personal searching on the part of the individual can they come to grips with such a challenge.

However, bending the religion should not be encouraged. Doing so requires little to no effort on the part of the individual. They are merely picking and choosing what suits them, thus changing the religion itself, rather than taking the dangerous step that results in change within.

Make sense? I hope so.
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Post by starseed_10 »

I AM ME wrote:I just don't understand what's wrong with people forming their own beliefs based on what they have experienced and what they have learned from other religions. I think it's wrong that most people will simply follow whatever faith they were taught as children. How do you know thatsome other belief wouldn't have fit your views better if you only ever learn about one, and have it forced down your throat from birth.


It's not always about finding something that "fits your views". If you believe strongly enough in something, maybe it's worth trying to come to terms with the aspects you're unsure of. I'm not saying to go about it blindly, but we also shouldn't be so quick to denounce something because it doesn't perfectly fit our outlook. People improve through challange.
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