Who are you voting for? (Canada)

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 6/18/2004, 11:45 am

J-Neli wrote:You are entitled to your opinion, and you have the right to not to have an abortion should you not want one (if you were a woman...), but at the same time those who believe abortion is right should be entitled to that right, especially considering the large numbers on both sides of the coin.

You may say "yes but if a group of people believe murder is right, they surely shouldn't be entitled to killing people" which is correct, only because maybe a miniscule portion of the population (maybe 0.00001%) may find it justifiable. In the case of abortion, although there are no official numbers there can be anywhere from a 50/50 split to 80/20 in either direction. Therefore, one group can't force their beliefs onto another.

This justification of majority rule is highly illogical.

Where is the line? what if suddenly 10% of the population decided slaves were a natural part of life. is ten percent enough to qualify a position as moral?

What if 90% of Canada votes to kill the other 10%. Is this right? Is it rational?

I find it highly amusing and somewhat hypocritical that you believe that pro-lifers should not be able to force their views on you, but you would have no problem forcing your belief that welfare is a right on a capitalist.

demockracy makes hypocrities of everyone.

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 6/18/2004, 4:52 pm

I had a feeling that post would come back to haunt me... I really don't have much of a rebuttal for you...

I think that if you don't want to pay taxes you shouldn't have to, but in return won't receive any of the government services that those taxes would have contributed towards.

The same can be said about abortion rights. Those who don't want to have abortions don't have to, and those who are pro-choice can have them if they choose to.

Neither side should be able to speak for the other.

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 6/21/2004, 10:23 am

that satisfies me

tasha · Post by **tasha** » 6/21/2004, 10:46 pm

if I was old enough, i'd vote NDP.

Screw "wasting my vote", if everyone who wanted to vote NDP voted NDP instead of Liberal, they'd have a great chance.

dream in japanese · Post by **dream in japanese** » 6/21/2004, 10:51 pm

i voted today in the advance polls :uh:

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 6/21/2004, 10:52 pm

As did I. I wont be here on election day.

dream in japanese · Post by **dream in japanese** » 6/21/2004, 11:03 pm

i'll be working as a deputy returning officer on election day :nod:

deniedjunkie · Post by **deniedjunkie** » 6/22/2004, 7:56 am

i voted to yesterday, will be at matt good election day

voted green

dream in japanese · Post by **dream in japanese** » 6/22/2004, 8:01 am

i really wanted to vote for green but i really don't want to see conservatives win

tasha · Post by **tasha** » 6/22/2004, 11:00 am

there's a reason why i wouldn't vote for green.

when we had the provincial election, we had a mock electin within our school, with all the candidates in the riding coming in and they had a debate. The guy that represented the Green party was a fucking moron. He got lots of cheers from the students, but honestly, in reality everything he said was so incredibly unrealistic, unecessary, and just stupid.
I can't recall exactly what it was he said, but all I remember is thinking he was the biggest idiot, and I wouldn't vote for him.
Of course, I voted NDP in that mock election.

Damn. I wish i could remember what he talked about.
I'll find out, and get back to you

deniedjunkie · Post by **deniedjunkie** » 6/22/2004, 11:43 am

that was one candidate, that doesnt represent my candidate or any other.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 6/22/2004, 12:33 pm

Of course it doesnt but if a candidate does a poor job it reflects very poorly on the party. If the green party candidate in my area acts like a moron i'm not gonna put his faults aside and think "well the rest of the party probably arent morons" i'm going to take that first impression and cast a vote for someone else.

thirdhour · Post by **thirdhour** » 6/22/2004, 2:10 pm

I went to the only 'candidates meeting' (wasnt a real debate) in my city, and get this. Darrel Stinson, the conservative candidate and current MP, DIDN'T SHOW UP. He went to a fundraiser for his campaign instead. Asshole.

The green party candidate seemed to be confused that he was in politics.

"Whats your stance on a woman's right to choose?"
"*shuffles through papers* abortion, abortion. oh, found it. uhh, it says that the green party is for abortion...so i guess i have to be to."

I had been resisting going behind the NDP 100% because I wanted to support green to, but if we're going for best person for the job, that guy loses.

NDP suddenly has a ton of support from my riding, I've seen way more signs up in people's lawns for her than anyone else.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 6/26/2004, 3:47 pm

Short, simple, to the point.

http://sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/story/news/ ... 40624.html

Long Jonny · Post by **Long Jonny** » 6/26/2004, 3:52 pm

ya, i saw that interview earlier this week. it is truly gonna be sad if canada does end up voting the conservatives into power. i couldn't disagree with their policies (the ones they are actually telling us about) more. although, the liberals don't seem capable of being able to move us into the right direction either. i wish the ndp had more support across canada--they have some great ideas imo.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 6/26/2004, 4:24 pm

I'd probably vote Green if I was able to vote this time around. Get them more funding for the next one.

Though, since this is likely going to be a minority government, it probably won't be long before I can vote in the next one...

I think it would be great if the left wing parties would just band together to take out the conservatives. Stop bickering about the fucking specifics - get a left wing party in power and let the people decide on each policy.

Think about it. Even if the conservatives get into power, the MAJORITY of Canadians will have voted left wing. Doesn't that mean the governing body should be left wing?

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 6/26/2004, 4:52 pm

see the thing is, everyone talks about how they wish the conservitives had more support......well how do you think they get it? if you beleiev in them VOTE FOR THEM! It's the only way they're going to get big, you can't just leave it to someone else.

As for NDP signs i hear you Yannic, maybe NDP supporters are just more vocal, but our cities yards have orange as a main stay.

oh and if your worried about whether you shoudl vote liberal even though your NDP, don't be, even ifthe conservitives win, it's going to be a magor minority and anything wacko will just get voted down by the other parties. Besides i'll get together with you and protest my ass off like a crazy person. A Inept Liberal party i could stand, but Stephen Harper.......

Cole · Post by **Cole** » 6/27/2004, 2:06 am

i voted for the ndp on the advance voting days. i dunno...i love what they stand for - equal rights. and i love their ideas on environmental issues, health care, education, even taxes, everything. i'm gunna cry if the conservatives win...well maybe not literally, but everything i read or hear about them i disagree with, except the abortion thing. i'm agianst abortion. but just because i agree with one thing a party is for, doesn't mean i would support them.
what is the percentage of people who support the idea of gay marriage? i'm not sure, exactly. but i know it's high. so i think they'll lose a lot of support in that area once people see what they will do. and then more people will turn to the ndp, which will be good for whenever the next election is.
also...there are a lot of ndp signs up around where i live too. more than the other parties...so, why do they have 15 or 16% support, so much less than the liberals and conservatives? i don't get it...

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 6/27/2004, 8:24 am

The problem here isn't that the race is close. There are clearly more left wing Canadians voting. The problem is that the votes are split between the NDP and the Liberals. The left wing being divided is an extremely dirty way for the Conservatives to get in. Like I said earlier, if there are more people voting left wing, there should be a left wing government in power. Would it not make sense to vote for the general ideas first (Ballot = Right wing: [ ] Left wing: [ ], with some general description of each, or a list of the parties running under each), then vote for the party itself (if left wins, the second ballot is used to vote for a left wing part, and if the right wins, we vote for which right wing party). That way, the majority is closer to being satisfied with their government. It's fair, and it actually makes sense. Just because there are a shitload of left wing parties dividing the left vote doesn't mean that the right wing is getting the most votes.

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 6/27/2004, 10:26 am

That's what they have in the states bascally. As much as the dems and the republicans are similar, one technically is left wing, the other right. You would prefer we had less choice in our political parties?

I understand where you're coming from, but "left wing" and "right wing" are merely titles, and for the most part can both describe a vast array of political theories. "Left wing" could mean you're open to Communism, while right wing you could open to a fascist or neo-liberalism govt.

You can also make the claim that every party is right wing. Every party compaigns from the left, and governs from the right. There isn't a party out there that wouldn't succomb to the wishes of big business, even if their platform during an election says otherwise.

Furthermore if you decide to draw a line between the parties where is it? Personally I believe the Canadian spectrum consists of...

Communism [left]--------------------------------(Green)----Centre-(NDP)-------(Lib)-------(CON)---------------------Fascism [right]

I'm willing to bet that should the green's ever actually become a relevent party they will need to shift their views towards the right.

I think the current system in place is the best one for Canada. There is no need to confuse things by trying to define parties on the political spectrum, not too mention, who would be defining "left wing" and "right wing"? This can lead to immense bias as choice of words/descriptions can lead voters in one direction. A Concervative minority cannot hurt anyone, if the grits, NDP's and Bloc decide to vote issue by issue, rather than partnering with another party regardless of the issue.