Trustworthy wrote:I think a big part of the reasoning (from the artists standpoint) behind not letting everyone record the shows is because its puts the music out of the artists hands.....what if they have a bad night? or probs with gear etc? - and that recording gets out and shitload of people hear it and get the wrong impression of that band or artist? I am sure that type of thinking plays a BIG role in the no recording rule as well
As Matt said above, don't take any of this personally because we know you don't make the rules Trusty. This isn't even about OLP specifically.
If a band allows recordings, there will be lots of
quality recordings out there for fans to hear. The good performances and good quality tapes naturally become the ones that get passed along the most. Rage Against the Machine played a festival in 1993 where they stood onstage naked for 15 minutes and didn't play a note of music unless you count the feedback from their guitars. There's an audio bootleg of this show out there on the Internet, but I don't think anyone downloaded it and thought "wow these guys fucking suck, I'll never go see them play a show!" As a recording, it is only interesting in its abnormality and thus it's not a popular or well circulated recording. There are plenty of normal sets out there and anyone who cares can find them and get an accurate opinion of Rage Against the Machine. I have met people who will not even GO to a concert of a band that does not allow recording. Their reasoning is if a band's so worried about putting on a bad show, they must have big confidence or competence issues and probably don't put on a good show.
If there are 0 bootlegs out there of a band, every single fan who shows up to see them is only going to have that single experience as a basis for their opinion of the band as a live act. If they have a bad night and that's people's only exposure to the band as a live act, people are going to leave with an impression that that band's a shitty live act, and maybe next tour they won't go to the shows. There are bands that I think are crap based off of what I saw at a show, and there are others that I know I saw a bad night because I've heard some great live recordings of them. Sure, it takes a little confidence and maybe some faith or trust in your fans to go to an open taping policy for your concerts, but what the fuck are you doing as a touring artist if you don't have confidence in your performance?
To go back to that Rage Against the Machine show -- I bet there were several kids in the crowd at the show who shelled out a lot of money to go to this festival just to see Rage Against the Machine, their favorite band, and instead ended up booing them off stage for not playing a damn thing. Bet quite a few lost any interest in seeing that band live. When a band goes out on tour, they should worry a lot more about putting on a good show for the people who bought tickets for it and so what if a recording of a bad performance makes it out because there damn well better be 6 or 7 good performances that might turn up online for each bad one. We've heard so many times how OLP tries every night to give fans the best damn show possible, so I know they have nothing to be afraid of.
Trustworthy wrote:there is never one issue when it comes to this or one answer or solution - its always a combination or venue, artsit, unions, etc etc - i wish it was as easy as one persons call on things like this - but it is not - very little of anything on tour comes down to one persons final say - that is why the simplest things can keep ya busy for a whole day...lots of hoops to jump though, lots of red tape and TONS of back and forth on every little aspect of everything.
I'm sure anyone can understand and appreciate the amount of time that gets spent to make things happen. I work at a place where it takes 3 hours just to restart a server because of all the bullshit hoops to jump through. It's a completely different industry, but has the same basic problem that for everything you want to do, there are 5 other people who you need to get to agree with you, and each of those guys have 5 other people they need to please as well...
Nobody is expecting that things can be turned around overnight and the rest of this OLP tour can be fullscale open taping, bring your cameras, bring your tripods, bring your fucking $3k Schoeps microphones and your $21k 3D Panasonic camcorder. You need to start at the beginning and get it added into contracts, in clear terms. Maybe some venues or promoters won't go for it. You can always not play those places, or make a different policy depending on what can be agreed with the venue and post information on your band's website tour page about what types of recording are allowed at each show.
Trustworthy wrote: i also dont think people realize how much costs are involved at some of the places to record video/audio - cause' you can buy a damn nice new car for the same amount of $ some of these will places charge ya
- and the fine for doing it anyways is even more $ - like stupid amounts of cash if you get busted -which is the reason i am on lock down and cant even pull my camera out of my bag at some venues - like i said there is no standard there is no one solution or answer - and there is not much you can do about or will probably ever be done about it.....which sucks BIGTIME
I go to shows in Hollywood and I'm pretty well aware how things can be. I've seen venues with policies ranging from free, $50 per camera, all the way up to $5k+ -- these were just the little dive bars and clubs that local bands play. I don't know what it is like at the places that nationally touring acts play. If you're filming your next live concert DVD for widescale release, sure the venue's going to want their big paycheck. But there are all sort of smaller acts who manage to do it. 311, Amanda Palmer, Death Cab for Cutie, The Dresden Dolls, Presidents of the United States of America, etc. etc. etc. all manage to make it alright for the fans to tape shows. Maybe they have clear contracts so the venues are comfortable that footage isn't going to be used for a big commercial release, maybe they add a few bucks to the price of each ticket to offset fees, who knows. One thing that's clear is all those bands have found something to do about it -- certainly they're not going into debt to let fans record their shows.
oh well you cant fight union rules.
