Putting him down? Not quite. Am I saying "OMG I HATE STEVE, HE SUCKZ, YAY TURNER,"? No. Maybe you're just reading into a bit too much, and you're obviously a big Mazur fan, thus you're likely to get offended by what I'm saying easier. I am simply explaining how I'm a little worried about what he's going to bring to the table since he hasn't had a chance to do it before. If someone new comes into a main slot of creativity, I am going to worry a little bit. Not because "they can't handle it" or "they're not good enough" (and no, I'm not suggesting either of those), but because I don't know what he's capable of. I am not demeaning his ablities, I'm just not going to completely mark out because he's becoming a bigger part of the band.
Let's say a classic rock band had a guitarist leave for whatever reasons he may have. Then the band sees someone doing excellent covers of their music, and give him the spot as the lead guitarist. That would cause some fans to have some worries since they've never heard his original guitar work, but it doesn't make him a unoriginal or hated, just unfamiliar. Once they have a listen to what he can do, nervousness would go away now that they've seen him at his best (or at least the best they've seen him at). I should also note, I'm not calling Steve "some random guy the band picked up." I figured I should point that out before someone flips or tries to "correct me."
Just like pretty much everyone else, I have not heard Steve at the peak of his creativity, or even had the chance to see his creativity really begin to blossom.. and I'm not talking about playing OLP songs or some of his ad-libs I've heard (although they're pretty great). I am in no way saying he doesn't have creativity, and I'm in no way trying to "put him down and gang up on him," as you put it. Also, I'm not trying to bash him or the album with negativity, I'm just not setting extremely high hopes, when no one knows if it'll live up to what we want it to be or not. I'm just being cautious, and trying to stay realistic.
Album News
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myownsatellite
- Oskar Winner: 2009
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I didn't say I was offended, I'm just defending someone I think you're "worried" about for no real reason. I think it's crazy to get so worried about something that really we should just be looking forward to seeing and hearing. The last two albums? They were "worrying." This time around, OLP is on their own. Raine has been doing some awesome solo work, and I've watched Steve really come into his own as a performer over the last few years. And when I say watched, I mean I've stood at shows going "who is this guy" and then later I've stood at shows going "Wow, Steve is a great member of the band." I do feel like you're putting him down with your worrying, because you are pretty much saying you don't have a lot of faith in his abilities because you are so worried. I just think it stinks. //Edit - You don't come right out and say you don't have faith in him, you say that once he proves himself your mind might change but until then you'll worry, but worrying about someone's "unproven" abilities generally infers a lack of trust and faith in them.
He's been with the band for what, four years now? Something like that. Cut the guy some slack, and start trusting in his abilities. If he's ever going to become that major part of the band that you want to see him as, then he's going to need that trust and confidence that only fans can give a band.
Staying "realistic" by "worrying" about what role he's going to play is, like I said, silly at this point in Steve's and the band's career. Again, I think we all need to just back off, wait until more has been released, and see where we go from there. Until then, everything we're saying here is just speculation, which might in the end amount to nothing more than unfounded fears and what I think are some pretty crappy ways of looking foward to the new album.
And I'd just like to point out that I don't think YOU suck, and I don't not like YOU (although I don't really know you since you're relatively new to the board) and I'm not putting YOU down or anything of the sort. I just think that getting worried over the state of Steve is silly and I do think the negativity around here about the new album needs to be cut down simply because we haven't heard much of anything from it and, whether it turns out good or bad, I'm REALLY looking forward to new OLP music and I'm putting my complete faith in the guys to turn it around and put out something great just like they promise. (Whoo, that was a REALLY long sentence!)
//Edit 2 - I'd also like to point out that I'm seriously not trying to be a bitch here and I don't want you to feel like I'm attacking you because I'm not. I'm just really effing sick of all the negativity (and it's not just you that I'm feeling it from) and I really want something positive to come from this album (and this board) because I really love this band
He's been with the band for what, four years now? Something like that. Cut the guy some slack, and start trusting in his abilities. If he's ever going to become that major part of the band that you want to see him as, then he's going to need that trust and confidence that only fans can give a band.
Staying "realistic" by "worrying" about what role he's going to play is, like I said, silly at this point in Steve's and the band's career. Again, I think we all need to just back off, wait until more has been released, and see where we go from there. Until then, everything we're saying here is just speculation, which might in the end amount to nothing more than unfounded fears and what I think are some pretty crappy ways of looking foward to the new album.
And I'd just like to point out that I don't think YOU suck, and I don't not like YOU (although I don't really know you since you're relatively new to the board) and I'm not putting YOU down or anything of the sort. I just think that getting worried over the state of Steve is silly and I do think the negativity around here about the new album needs to be cut down simply because we haven't heard much of anything from it and, whether it turns out good or bad, I'm REALLY looking forward to new OLP music and I'm putting my complete faith in the guys to turn it around and put out something great just like they promise. (Whoo, that was a REALLY long sentence!)
//Edit 2 - I'd also like to point out that I'm seriously not trying to be a bitch here and I don't want you to feel like I'm attacking you because I'm not. I'm just really effing sick of all the negativity (and it's not just you that I'm feeling it from) and I really want something positive to come from this album (and this board) because I really love this band
~*Megan*~
"Wow, nice to meet you. Nine years huh? That's a really long time. Are you going to stab me or something? Because if you are, can we get it over with?" ~Jer
You are never stronger than when you land on the other side of despair. ~Zadie Smith, White Teeth
"Wow, nice to meet you. Nine years huh? That's a really long time. Are you going to stab me or something? Because if you are, can we get it over with?" ~Jer
You are never stronger than when you land on the other side of despair. ~Zadie Smith, White Teeth
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myownsatellite
- Oskar Winner: 2009
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MindsOnLoan
- Posts: 2358
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I have no hard feelings against you either. I was just trying to explain my thought process with what's all happening with the new album. And I'm not as negative as about it as you may think, it's just coming out that way on this aspect of the topic. Personally, I think it will blow Gravity and HIPT away, after all, they're finally getting to record the album the way they want again with Rock out of the picture. Whether or not it compares to the first four, it'll still be a step in the right direction.
Also, there is something I'd like to point out that I was going to post earlier, but I got wrapped up in debating, haha. If you look through the discography of several great artists throughout the years, quite a few of them come out with great albums in a row, followed by a slump. The next album or two are usually below expectations by fans and critics alike. Followed by the disappointments is a rebound by the band with an awesome album (not just saying it's just one album that does it, but you guys get my point). Perhaps this could be the rebound album.
Also, there is something I'd like to point out that I was going to post earlier, but I got wrapped up in debating, haha. If you look through the discography of several great artists throughout the years, quite a few of them come out with great albums in a row, followed by a slump. The next album or two are usually below expectations by fans and critics alike. Followed by the disappointments is a rebound by the band with an awesome album (not just saying it's just one album that does it, but you guys get my point). Perhaps this could be the rebound album.
I think you ALL suck!
And no, I agree with Megan, to be "worrying" about a record just really isn't neccesary. It's just music
Steve can play. There's no denying that. So I think it's best we just sit back and wait..
Also, MindsOnLoan, that's a very good point about artists with large discographies. Dylan put out countless albums over the years, some of which were absolute gold, and some of which were absolute crap. It happens. You can't expect an artist - or a band - to churn out greatness over and over again. So please, hakuna matata. I'm sure it'll be well worth the wait.
And no, I agree with Megan, to be "worrying" about a record just really isn't neccesary. It's just music
Steve can play. There's no denying that. So I think it's best we just sit back and wait..
Also, MindsOnLoan, that's a very good point about artists with large discographies. Dylan put out countless albums over the years, some of which were absolute gold, and some of which were absolute crap. It happens. You can't expect an artist - or a band - to churn out greatness over and over again. So please, hakuna matata. I'm sure it'll be well worth the wait.
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Tattooed Angels
- Oskar Winner: 2006
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MindsonLoan
Have you had a chance to listen to the other CD's Steve has played on over the years. They are from mostly LA artist, but still it is studio recordings.
True it is not the same as OLP, but it is him playing guitar.
He plays on
Gabe Mann"s Tall Building
The Rescues EP and CD
Cobalt Party Revolution
I know he played a little on Billy The Kidd upcoming cd
Lucy Swartz
plus he did some TV work. Some guitar work on Rules of Engagement and another show that was recently cancelled.
I know he also plays with friends in LA..
I agree with everyone who says we should not worry about the cd..
I see nobody saying they are worried about the lyrics, singing, bass or drums..
BTW Meagan-Steve has been an *offical* member of OLP for almost 6-1/2 years now.. I was thinking the other day how young he was when he joined..
Have you had a chance to listen to the other CD's Steve has played on over the years. They are from mostly LA artist, but still it is studio recordings.
True it is not the same as OLP, but it is him playing guitar.
He plays on
Gabe Mann"s Tall Building
The Rescues EP and CD
Cobalt Party Revolution
I know he played a little on Billy The Kidd upcoming cd
Lucy Swartz
plus he did some TV work. Some guitar work on Rules of Engagement and another show that was recently cancelled.
I know he also plays with friends in LA..
I agree with everyone who says we should not worry about the cd..
I see nobody saying they are worried about the lyrics, singing, bass or drums..
BTW Meagan-Steve has been an *offical* member of OLP for almost 6-1/2 years now.. I was thinking the other day how young he was when he joined..
I feel love, I feel a power. It comes to me in the darkest hour. And I want to feel it again
Teach the young people how to think, not what to think-Sidney Sugarman
http://www.warchild.ca http://www.one.org http://www.cityharvest.org/
Peace and Love
Gail E.
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Tattooed Angels
- Oskar Winner: 2006
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Also Matt said it..
Joel does not sit on in this cd.
He was not asked and he wants to concentrate on his own music-PEDESTRIAN
who everyone on here should check out if they have not all ready..
Joel does not sit on in this cd.
He was not asked and he wants to concentrate on his own music-PEDESTRIAN
who everyone on here should check out if they have not all ready..
I feel love, I feel a power. It comes to me in the darkest hour. And I want to feel it again
Teach the young people how to think, not what to think-Sidney Sugarman
http://www.warchild.ca http://www.one.org http://www.cityharvest.org/
Peace and Love
Gail E.
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Heavy Alibi
- Posts: 1643
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- Location: Canada
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Heavy Alibi
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 6/30/2008, 7:48 pm
- Location: Canada
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Heavy Alibi
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 6/30/2008, 7:48 pm
- Location: Canada
Just in case y'all didn't see this yet, here's Raine's direct response to a question about the mainstream blandness of Gravity and HIPT. His answer is pretty enlightening:
From his Montreal Gazette interview:
Gazette: It seemed like you were trying to become a more direct lyricist even before The Hunter's Lullaby - the last few Our Lady Peace albums weren't nearly as metaphorical as what you were doing on Naveed or Spiritual Machines.
Raine: Yeah, I know. That's something that I'm struggling with. I might be able to get back to that place. I think that was definitely Bob Rock trying to push me in that direction. I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that, to be honest. I think what this solo record does for me is it's given me a way to do that, but in a much more comfortable setting. I'm not sure - it might be a combination of the music in the background supporting the words - but yeah. I listen to those records that you just mentioned, and yeah: For rock music, I'm more apt to do that. I like more hiding behind the music a bit and not being so direct. I don't know. Hopefully this gets that out of my system and I can get back to a little bit more of the creative poetic scenes on some of those records.
On the note of quotations, I thought I'd also present this quote from Raine during a 2002 interview, when Gravity was released. It's quite interesting to say the least:
The album also possesses a sort of evolutionary spirit, in part because the longtime guitarist Mike Turner quit midway through recording and was replaced by Detroit native Steve Mazur.
"We were limited by our guitar player," Maida said. "We always wanted to be a rock band, and all the songs I write are rock songs, but he was much more of an atmosphere guy. We never had a guitar player that could step out there and be at one with his instrument. Like a Jimmy Page, someone who has a voice. Now we have that."
From his Montreal Gazette interview:
Gazette: It seemed like you were trying to become a more direct lyricist even before The Hunter's Lullaby - the last few Our Lady Peace albums weren't nearly as metaphorical as what you were doing on Naveed or Spiritual Machines.
Raine: Yeah, I know. That's something that I'm struggling with. I might be able to get back to that place. I think that was definitely Bob Rock trying to push me in that direction. I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that, to be honest. I think what this solo record does for me is it's given me a way to do that, but in a much more comfortable setting. I'm not sure - it might be a combination of the music in the background supporting the words - but yeah. I listen to those records that you just mentioned, and yeah: For rock music, I'm more apt to do that. I like more hiding behind the music a bit and not being so direct. I don't know. Hopefully this gets that out of my system and I can get back to a little bit more of the creative poetic scenes on some of those records.
On the note of quotations, I thought I'd also present this quote from Raine during a 2002 interview, when Gravity was released. It's quite interesting to say the least:
The album also possesses a sort of evolutionary spirit, in part because the longtime guitarist Mike Turner quit midway through recording and was replaced by Detroit native Steve Mazur.
"We were limited by our guitar player," Maida said. "We always wanted to be a rock band, and all the songs I write are rock songs, but he was much more of an atmosphere guy. We never had a guitar player that could step out there and be at one with his instrument. Like a Jimmy Page, someone who has a voice. Now we have that."
—Doesn't anybody ever know—
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Handsome_Devil
- Posts: 77
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- Location: UK
I dunno, if Bob's production was so detrimental to their sound, then why go back with him for HIPT? I'd like to say it was just that, and I honestly rejoiced when I heard they'd fucked him off, but who's to say they're not looking for a sound close to Bob's, with the above in mind? Unless that can be easily answered?
I agree with MindsonLoan to be honest and I don't understand why his/her concerns are being met with hostility. You've admitted Steve didn't really get to show off his style during the past two records, so we're waiting on this one to see if he can impress us. It's easier to disappoint then impress, especially when filling Mike Turners shoes, so I don't get why you're hounding him. If you'd prefer out and out optimism, then go for it by all means, but don't try and force it on the rest of us.
It may not be 'necessary' but doesn't that go with most worrying? OLP records are more than 'just music' to me, and I've been waiting impatiently for three years.
I agree with MindsonLoan to be honest and I don't understand why his/her concerns are being met with hostility. You've admitted Steve didn't really get to show off his style during the past two records, so we're waiting on this one to see if he can impress us. It's easier to disappoint then impress, especially when filling Mike Turners shoes, so I don't get why you're hounding him. If you'd prefer out and out optimism, then go for it by all means, but don't try and force it on the rest of us.
Suthy wrote:And no, I agree with Megan, to be "worrying" about a record just really isn't neccesary. It's just music
It may not be 'necessary' but doesn't that go with most worrying? OLP records are more than 'just music' to me, and I've been waiting impatiently for three years.
They said: "There's too much caffeine in your bloodstream, and a lack of real spice in your life"
I said : "Leave me alone, because I'm alright, dad. Surprised to still be on my own..."
Oh, but don't mention love. I'd hate the strain of the pain again.
I said : "Leave me alone, because I'm alright, dad. Surprised to still be on my own..."
Oh, but don't mention love. I'd hate the strain of the pain again.
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myownsatellite
- Oskar Winner: 2009
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Handsome_Devil wrote:I agree with MindsonLoan to be honest and I don't understand why his/her concerns are being met with hostility. You've admitted Steve didn't really get to show off his style during the past two records, so we're waiting on this one to see if he can impress us. It's easier to disappoint then impress, especially when filling Mike Turners shoes, so I don't get why you're hounding him. If you'd prefer out and out optimism, then go for it by all means, but don't try and force it on the rest of us.Suthy wrote:And no, I agree with Megan, to be "worrying" about a record just really isn't neccesary. It's just music
It may not be 'necessary' but doesn't that go with most worrying? OLP records are more than 'just music' to me, and I've been waiting impatiently for three years.
I've stated pretty repeatedly that I'm not attacking anyone and I'm not being hostile. MindsOnLoan has even said they know I'm not picking on them, I'm pointing out my own view of what was said about Steve. I don't think it's a bad thing to defend Steve, especially since he is a very important part of the band, and a great musician. I just think it's silly to get worried over something that doesn't seem like we have much basis for worrying over.
Also, OLP is not "just music" to me either, and I had a totally long explanatory post showing just how much of a fan I am of their music, but I feel that defending my "fanhood" is pretty unnecessary too. I just don't feel like it's very fair of us to go putting that kind of "pre-blame" on Steve when he's spent the last 6 years (according to Gail - I don't know exact figures myself but I trust her timeline) proving himself capable and more than worthy of being a part of this band, creatively and musically.
I'm not advocating blind optimism. I'm advocating faith in a band we all love and trust to put out a great album, which we know they're capable of doing.
~*Megan*~
"Wow, nice to meet you. Nine years huh? That's a really long time. Are you going to stab me or something? Because if you are, can we get it over with?" ~Jer
You are never stronger than when you land on the other side of despair. ~Zadie Smith, White Teeth
"Wow, nice to meet you. Nine years huh? That's a really long time. Are you going to stab me or something? Because if you are, can we get it over with?" ~Jer
You are never stronger than when you land on the other side of despair. ~Zadie Smith, White Teeth
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Handsome_Devil
- Posts: 77
- Joined: 8/27/2006, 1:07 am
- Location: UK
myownsatellite wrote:I've stated pretty repeatedly that I'm not attacking anyone and I'm not being hostile. MindsOnLoan has even said they know I'm not picking on them, I'm pointing out my own view of what was said about Steve. I don't think it's a bad thing to defend Steve, especially since he is a very important part of the band, and a great musician. I just think it's silly to get worried over something that doesn't seem like we have much basis for worrying over.
You're not attacking anyone, no. But you're not exactly tolerating a different, less-believing view-point; you're excessively defending a man from people who are - at worst - unsure, OLP fans. We're not exactly roasting Steve alive are we? We're saying we don't know what to expect. That's it. The basis for worrying is not even Steve's fault, he's a newer member whose talent we've yet to familiarize ourselves with. Steve in New Member Might Detract From Band shocker!
myownsatellite wrote:Also, OLP is not "just music" to me either, and I had a totally long explanatory post showing just how much of a fan I am of their music, but I feel that defending my "fanhood" is pretty unnecessary too.
But defending a bloke so vigorously from what can barely be classed as criticism is?
myownsatellite wrote:I just don't feel like it's very fair of us to go putting that kind of "pre-blame" on Steve when he's spent the last 6 years (according to Gail - I don't know exact figures myself but I trust her timeline) proving himself capable and more than worthy of being a part of this band, creatively and musically.
There's no pre-blame for Steve in my mind, the full band made those records, and they all underwhelmed equally - for lack of a better word (that's actually a bit harsher than I'd like to come off, there was some impressive work on both). I think you'll find the blame lies in Bob Rock's court at the moment. As for 6 years worth of proof, that's no good if it's been stifled to fuck by Rock, and only seen live when you live overseas.
myownsatellite wrote:I'm not advocating blind optimism. I'm advocating faith in a band we all love and trust to put out a great album, which we know they're capable of doing.
Who's disappointed me slightly with the last two releases? I'm sure it'll be a decent record, but I'm hoping it pisses all over the wait!
Anyway, I think I've been a bit too critical to OLP's last two efforts, in trying to defend my stance. There's no doubt it'll be a good record in my mind, but I'm wanting an album reminiscent of the work before Rock got his manky hands all over them, that's all.
They said: "There's too much caffeine in your bloodstream, and a lack of real spice in your life"
I said : "Leave me alone, because I'm alright, dad. Surprised to still be on my own..."
Oh, but don't mention love. I'd hate the strain of the pain again.
I said : "Leave me alone, because I'm alright, dad. Surprised to still be on my own..."
Oh, but don't mention love. I'd hate the strain of the pain again.
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myownsatellite
- Oskar Winner: 2009
- Posts: 5047
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- Contact:
I don't think I'm excessively defending him. I think I'm defending him because I'm passionate about OLP and his contribution to it, which I do have high hopes for and I'm pretty positive that he can do it. I don't see that as excessive, and I don't really see you "tolerating" my arguments either since you're so vehement about me being hostile and my criticism not being real.
I was pretty much done with this whole discussion until tonight, and I'm going to wash my hands of it again because quite frankly I'm sick of arguing my point and I know that if I keep going I'm going to look like the idiot of the argument, and I'm pretty sick of that too.
Oh, and before anyone calls me a whiny baby or coward or anything for running away from a discussion - I'm not running away, I'm just tired and have too much other work to do to bother getting my knickers in a twist over arguing Steve's merits! For once, I'm trying to put school first
I was pretty much done with this whole discussion until tonight, and I'm going to wash my hands of it again because quite frankly I'm sick of arguing my point and I know that if I keep going I'm going to look like the idiot of the argument, and I'm pretty sick of that too.
Oh, and before anyone calls me a whiny baby or coward or anything for running away from a discussion - I'm not running away, I'm just tired and have too much other work to do to bother getting my knickers in a twist over arguing Steve's merits! For once, I'm trying to put school first
~*Megan*~
"Wow, nice to meet you. Nine years huh? That's a really long time. Are you going to stab me or something? Because if you are, can we get it over with?" ~Jer
You are never stronger than when you land on the other side of despair. ~Zadie Smith, White Teeth
"Wow, nice to meet you. Nine years huh? That's a really long time. Are you going to stab me or something? Because if you are, can we get it over with?" ~Jer
You are never stronger than when you land on the other side of despair. ~Zadie Smith, White Teeth