Lets debate (Part One): Abortion

think_about_it · Post by **think_about_it** » 3/21/2007, 7:50 am

Also, faninor..that last comment you made was really disgusting, not really a fun side topic.

Post by **faninor** » 3/21/2007, 12:08 pm

think_about_it wrote:Also, faninor..that last comment you made was really disgusting, not really a fun side topic.

Well, some animals out there try to eat their offspring or mates, and people eat things that come out of chickens all the time (it's even possible to purchase fertilized eggs at some markets)... it shouldn't be too disgusting if you put aside the human cannibalism aspect for a moment.

But it points out a weird contradiction in some people's thinking, which is why it's fun.

If someone is pro-choice and also a lacto vegetarian or vegan because they don't want to kill animals for food, wouldn't this imply that they feel that the unfertilized egg of a chicken has more value and more of a "right to life" than a fertilized human embryo or fetus, which just seems absurd. If it's okay with these people to abort a baby, they should have no objection to doing anything with a chicken egg, including eating it.

think_about_it · Post by **think_about_it** » 3/21/2007, 12:11 pm

That is an interesting way to look at it. I'm sure there are people out there who feel that way

Post by **faninor** » 3/21/2007, 1:32 pm

think_about_it wrote:That is an interesting way to look at it. I'm sure there are people out there who feel that way

Yep, there definitely are some people (though there are enough reasons to be pro-choice or to be vegetarian that it doesn't apply to everyone).

I'm always interested in contradictions within people's political beliefs.

Another one I've noticed is same sex marriage. People who are conservative and religious generally don't want same sex marriage to be legal because of the sanctity of marriage. But why does it matter if gay people are married too... that doesn't really have any bearing on someone's ability to practice his religion.

Before the same sex issue came up, the biggest law on the books in the US about marriage was polygamy. Polygamy was made illegal in the 1860's in order to keep Utah from becoming a state and to destroy any political power that Mormons had or wanted.

Laws which restrict who can marry whom are incapable of improving someone's ability to practice their own religion... if marriage is a part of religion, then a law restricting marriage is a law restricting religion. Period. No religious person should want that type of law in the books. Someday there may be one that puts constraints on their own religion, and then they'll really have something to cry about.

[/off topic]

crustine · Post by **crustine** » 3/21/2007, 9:49 pm

I dont think the vegan consenting to an abortion is the equivelant of eating an egg.

i think the abortion would be the same as not allowing the egg grow to a chick. Same as dropping a fertilized egg. Somehow i dont think they would have an issue with that.

Of course I agree with you on much of your argument on the contradictions in humanity. At a rally for X and seeing people wearing brands that support that which they are rallying against.

What I find interesting on the abortion issue is that it is almost always men who are creating the laws governing womans bodies.

Post by **faninor** » 3/21/2007, 10:42 pm

crustine wrote:I dont think the vegan consenting to an abortion is the equivelant of eating an egg.

i think the abortion would be the same as not allowing the egg grow to a chick. Same as dropping a fertilized egg. Somehow i dont think they would have an issue with that.

Hmm, perhaps... I guess we need to find out how the average vegan feels about farmers who go around and smash fertilized eggs because they don't want to have a chick.

crustine wrote:Of course I agree with you on much of your argument on the contradictions in humanity. At a rally for X and seeing people wearing brands that support that which they are rallying against.

What I find interesting on the abortion issue is that it is almost always men who are creating the laws governing womans bodies.

Haha yeah, well the women just need to turn off Oprah and get into politics! But nah really, whatever politician men there are out there who want to create laws making it harder to get an abortion... if you look at it from their perspective, the law is to protect the childen, male and female. I'm sure if there were some science fiction alternative to grow babies in an artificial womb that'd be an acceptable alternative for both sides. :*)**

think_about_it · Post by **think_about_it** » 3/22/2007, 10:34 am

faninor wrote:
think_about_it wrote:Another one I've noticed is same sex marriage. People who are conservative and religious generally don't want same sex marriage to be legal because of the sanctity of marriage. But why does it matter if gay people are married too... that doesn't really have any bearing on someone's ability to practice his religion.

I don't have a problem with gay marriage. I think that the people that do have a problem with it have a problem with it because they look at it as a sin. If they choose to get married then they are choosing to sin, so they aren't really practicing their religion...just going against it. If you are practicing your religion usually you choose not to sin.

crustine · Post by **crustine** » 3/22/2007, 11:12 am

well i dont think farmers have to go around smashing eggs cause the eggs generally never come in contact with a rooster.

the artificial womb would be the perfect solution. Then the ovum could grow devoid of women, making adoption a much easier concept. So it would be a mitigated abortion of sorts, I give the artificial womb my fertilized egg, deal done.
Biggest problem would be the vainty issue, many women would adopt for that over having their bodies stretched and ripped out of shape.

Post by **faninor** » 3/22/2007, 12:12 pm

crustine wrote:well i dont think farmers have to go around smashing eggs cause the eggs generally never come in contact with a rooster.

I said fertilized eggs.

crustine · Post by **crustine** » 3/22/2007, 12:17 pm

iknow

eggs genereally dont get fertilized ummm i am getting dizzy with this circular conversation

Post by **faninor** » 3/22/2007, 2:56 pm

Haha. *spins*

crustine · Post by **crustine** » 3/22/2007, 3:30 pm

oh where is Raine when you need him

think_about_it · Post by **think_about_it** » 3/23/2007, 8:47 am

crustine wrote:iknow eggs genereally dont get fertilized ummm i am getting dizzy with this circular conversation

I am getting dizzy just looking at your avatar!

Lando · Post by **Lando** » 3/23/2007, 6:24 pm

imagine if we lived in a world where women and men created hermaphrodites, lesbians created girls and gay men created boys...

I'd be the product of gay people!

crustine · Post by **crustine** » 3/23/2007, 8:23 pm

it might make the world a better place, not so trapped in labels

Lando · Post by **Lando** » 3/23/2007, 10:35 pm

hmm interesting theory, but i doubt it because most of the people would still be straight and there'd be a ton of hermaphrodites walking around.

AnnieDreams · Post by **AnnieDreams** » 3/24/2007, 6:25 am

Then people would be anti different-sex marriage!

crustine · Post by **crustine** » 3/24/2007, 7:37 am

haha yes so true and an interesting thought. If you were hemaphrodite can you have same sex or different sex marriage???

What about unics? there is an interesting dilema

Post by **saman** » 3/24/2007, 10:25 pm

unics? the only way i can make sense of with that is if you meant eunuchs.

i think it'd be cool if we could self-replicate. like hydras.

AnnieDreams · Post by **AnnieDreams** » 3/25/2007, 8:58 am

then we'd all look the same! Think of the security issues!