Controversial 9/11 Documentary - "Loose Change"

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 4/30/2006, 12:49 pm

anniedreams, they couldn't cover it up, that's why such a convincing document could be made from publicly available evidence.

what's more, i've read the NIST report and some of the 9/11 comission. both were made using the same source material as the movie. the government doesn't have pictures or videos we don't and they drew their "scientific" conclusions in the same fashion. for instance, they state that fire got as hot as 1812 degrees at one point, but there is absolutely no way they can actually know that to be true. it's just extrapolation.

so when you think about it in those terms, it makes some of their claims look even more dubious, especially with respect to the fire.

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 4/30/2006, 12:57 pm

ya definitely Rob. I was thinking about those things when I posted. I'm just trying to figure out reasoning for why the government would fail so horribly in their reaction to 9/11. I don't think they're innocent nor do I think they;re completely guilty but the grey area is so huge that it's really hard to tell where the lies and the truth start and stop, which is probably why this has become such a huge conspiracy.

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 5/1/2006, 10:40 am

i don't think it is wise to be so skeptical jim.

whether you believe it or not, i know the us government was behind these attacks. no matter who believes it, that will still remain true.

you don't believe me, but i know what i am saying is the truth. i can't prove it to you in a fashion that hasn't already been tried, but that doesn't change the fact that what i'm saying is fact.

so why take the risk? if i am correct, we are all facing some troubling times, times that we had better start preparing for now. if i am wrong, your life doesn't change. you have nothing to lose and everything to gain from paying attention to what i'm saying.

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 5/1/2006, 4:24 pm

I'm just being skeptical of both sides which I think is only fair. Ya it's a scary thought if the govt was behind this completely but I think there's still something missing. I don't really know what it is. And maybe it is dangerous to be skeptical but I think it's better to be skeptical than follow something blindly (as many people are doing with the 9/11 attacks).

Neil · Post by **Neil** » 5/2/2006, 8:09 am

J-Neli wrote:I'm just being skeptical of both sides which I think is only fair. Ya it's a scary thought if the govt was behind this completely but I think there's still something missing. I don't really know what it is. And maybe it is dangerous to be skeptical but I think it's better to be skeptical than follow something blindly (as many people are doing with the 9/11 attacks).

Exactly.......but something as extensive as 9/11 still leaves me believing that the government was not ENTIRELY responsible, but I have strong belief in the fact that they are hiding shit that was their fault.

I'm still bitter that the Pentagon security camera(s) images have never been released by the administration. What the hell's the deal?

naseoj · Post by **naseoj** » 5/5/2006, 4:43 pm

Go Down Fighting wrote:
I'm still bitter that the Pentagon security camera(s) images have never been released by the administration. What the hell's the deal?

the deal is they dont want you to know it wasn't actually a jet liner that hit the pentagon.

Korzic · Post by **Korzic** » 5/15/2006, 6:38 am

If you try hard enough, you can convince anyone of anything.

The 1 thing that convinces me that this is was not a conspiracy is the fact I'm not naive enough to believe that the govt could orchestrate this, then carry it out, then cover it up and not have someone singing from the rafters like a damned canary. It's just not plausible. Someone somewhere inevitably has enough moral judgement to stand up and say THIS IS NOT RIGHT and go public. You only have to look at Watergate for that.

But I think this point has most likely been made in the past.

Honestly, if you stop looking through jaded glasses and cut through the belief that the current administration is the devil and the source of all evil, you have to realise that some things about these conspiracy theories just don't add up properly, namely my above point.

Post by **faninor** » 5/15/2006, 5:02 pm

Just wondering, have you watched this documentary?

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 5/15/2006, 7:29 pm

Korzic wrote:If you try hard enough, you can convince anyone of anything.

The 1 thing that convinces me that this is was not a conspiracy is the fact I'm not naive enough to believe that the govt could orchestrate this, then carry it out, then cover it up and not have someone singing from the rafters like a damned canary. It's just not plausible. Someone somewhere inevitably has enough moral judgement to stand up and say THIS IS NOT RIGHT and go public. You only have to look at Watergate for that.

But I think this point has most likely been made in the past.

Honestly, if you stop looking through jaded glasses and cut through the belief that the current administration is the devil and the source of all evil, you have to realise that some things about these conspiracy theories just don't add up properly, namely my above point.

this post is a classic example of what is wrong with the world today.

nothing personal korzic, but.. are you thinking? why would you make statements like this if you were? you cannot support or prove any of what you have just said. in fact, the evidence that exists is overwhelming in the case against yours. rather than explore this evidence and THINK CRITICALLY on the issue, you make assumptions and toss out a cursorary opinion that you formed without review of the facts.

what's more, even after a review of the evidence, i doubt you will change your mind. why? why do you want to be right more than you want the truth?

Korzic · Post by **Korzic** » 5/16/2006, 6:58 am

No I haven;t watched it, which was why I didn't comment on it.

I am thinking. Which is why (and maybe I'm the naive one in this case) I honestly cannot believe that with the scope of the situation and the amount of people it must have involved to set up that NO ONE... NO ONE had the moral courage to stand up and say this is wrong. I don't believe humanity to be this well and truly fucked. Believe what you want about how the current US administration, its policies and method, but surely you cannot believe that the entire government is without any form of morals.

I'm not aiming to be right., being right has nothing to do with this. I am making an observation and stating an opinion that I do not believe that something like this could be carried out without some form of objection and loud one at that being raised. I point to Watergate (which in this case is something far less horrendous) as my example of this.

Is the government hiding something? Of course it is. In a case like this there is LOTS to hide, some of it could be very damaging to either individuals or to the nation or to a political party. I don't dispute this. I do dispute that the government had some form of direct control over what went down.

What it boils down to. US govt had no direct input in 9/11 based on the fact that I dont believe that they could do this without someone having a moral objection and raising hell.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/16/2006, 9:30 am

so they had direct control but no direct input?

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » 5/16/2006, 10:56 am

Interesting related article: http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/F ... 01181.html

magicseamonkey · Post by **magicseamonkey** » 5/16/2006, 12:53 pm

naseoj wrote:
Go Down Fighting wrote:
I'm still bitter that the Pentagon security camera(s) images have never been released by the administration. What the hell's the deal?

the deal is they dont want you to know it wasn't actually a jet liner that hit the pentagon.

according to CNN, it's supposed to be released by Judicial Watch today.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/16/pentag ... index.html

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/16/2006, 12:58 pm

why am I not surprised that the Judicial Watch website is down right now?

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/16/2006, 1:39 pm

Fox news was showing a video that seems to be pretty much exactly what we've seen before: a few frames that show nothing.

magicseamonkey · Post by **magicseamonkey** » 5/16/2006, 2:03 pm

Axtech wrote::lol:

why am I not surprised that the Judicial Watch website is down right now?

no shit.

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 5/16/2006, 2:54 pm

it is the EXACT SAME footage you've all already seen. they released 2 camera angles, both do not show a plane. CNN has it up.

however, if you look at stephen riskus' photos from the day of the attack, you WILL see a NINETY FOOT HOLE across the 1st story of the building, where the plane went in. you will also see damage to a fence and a generator (~40 ft apart), presumably caused by engines, which COULD NOT have been caused by a missile or a truck bomb.

the pentagon WAS hit by a plane. the no-plane theory is likely disinformation put forth by the US government.

and korzic - well, they did do it, and nobody has spoke up so far. i think now would be a good time for you to start looking at some of that evidence, such as the paper i posted earlier.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/16/2006, 8:20 pm

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/16/2006, 8:28 pm

also, I hadn't seen or heard of this before: http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=10009

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/17/2006, 9:10 pm

also, some counters to some of the more common pro-conspiracy arguments: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... page=1&c=y