I'd like to offically know how people feel about this guy.....
I plan to use any constructive arguments for my term paper in a few months, granted that you give me the proper "ok" to use your material, cited properly and such.
Thanks all!
Baseball's Barry Bonds (Doping discussion)
Baseball's Barry Bonds (Doping discussion)
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
who????
Open your eyes to nights and days, you close them up and float away
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
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starvingeyes
- Oskar Winner: 2007
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- Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
- Location: california's not very far
he is CLEARLY on steroids, this is not a matter of contention anymore but a plainly visible FACT that i don't really think is up for debate. whether or not an athlete is on steroids is INCREDIBLY EASY to recongize just by LOOKING at them.
it is NOT HUMANLY POSSIBLE to develop the kind of muscle mass that he has without using steroids. period. it cannot be done.
it is NOT HUMANLY POSSIBLE to develop the kind of muscle mass that he has without using steroids. period. it cannot be done.
starvingeyes wrote:he is CLEARLY on steroids, this is not a matter of contention anymore but a plainly visible FACT that i don't really think is up for debate. whether or not an athlete is on steroids is INCREDIBLY EASY to recongize just by LOOKING at them.
it is NOT HUMANLY POSSIBLE to develop the kind of muscle mass that he has without using steroids. period. it cannot be done.
Not to say that I don't agree with you (cuz I do) but for the argument's sake, do you truely have any proof? Other than the fact that barry has changed, physically.
Barry claims it was muscle gained through a very strict diet and training routine. Why is that not realistic?
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
Barry, in 1991
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multim ... bonds1.jpg
Barry, in 2004
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/s ... nds327.jpg
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multim ... bonds1.jpg
Barry, in 2004
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/s ... nds327.jpg
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
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starvingeyes
- Oskar Winner: 2007
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
- Location: california's not very far
he's too big, besides, his best friend was convicted of selling steroids to pro athletes and sent to jail. barry was a client at balco and close to conte. what's more, barry admitted taking the "cream" and "the clear" in the leaked grand jury testimony, and victor conte has since admitted that the cream and the clear ARE STEROIDS.
so yeah, it was proven that barry bonds took steroids a while ago. did he intend to? sure looks like it, if you've read game of shadows.
so yeah, it was proven that barry bonds took steroids a while ago. did he intend to? sure looks like it, if you've read game of shadows.
I think I heard that one of Barry's ex-es has also come public stating that she knows that back in 2000, he was definitely juicing.
I'm hoping people will come out and state reasons why they feel he's being misjudged. I'm hoping there are members of the CM that believe he has not juiced. That is what will make my paper interesting. The believers......because I'm definitely not one.
I'm hoping people will come out and state reasons why they feel he's being misjudged. I'm hoping there are members of the CM that believe he has not juiced. That is what will make my paper interesting. The believers......because I'm definitely not one.
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
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starvingeyes
- Oskar Winner: 2007
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
- Location: california's not very far
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closeyoureyes
- Oskar Winner: 2006
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- Joined: 8/2/2003, 1:36 pm
Back to Barry Bonds.........how willingly is the public going to accept the fact that Barry Bonds is going to pass Babe Ruth for 2nd all time in HR's, and possibly pass Hank Aaron before the season is over for 1st, all time?
Next question.......why is all the focus on Barry Bonds? Why is Mark McGuire not being investigated?
(Is Bonds being racially targeted?)
Next question.......why is all the focus on Barry Bonds? Why is Mark McGuire not being investigated?
(Is Bonds being racially targeted?)
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
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starseed_10
- Oskar Winner: 2005
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Go Down Fighting wrote:Back to Barry Bonds.........how willingly is the public going to accept the fact that Barry Bonds is going to pass Babe Ruth for 2nd all time in HR's, and possibly pass Hank Aaron before the season is over for 1st, all time?
this is exactly why the focus is on Bonds. who cares if mcguire had a few good seasons.
i hope nobody pitches to him
blah
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myownsatellite
- Oskar Winner: 2009
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Go Down Fighting wrote:Next question.......why is all the focus on Barry Bonds? Why is Mark McGuire not being investigated?
(Is Bonds being racially targeted?)
Why is every athlete not being screened for steiroid use? I mean look at how many people have been accused of it in the last six months. Just screen them all and get it over with.
If it's illegal in sports, it should be mandatory to be tested at sporadic intervals and at random.
I don't pay very much attention to sports now that I don't work the morning shift in a bookstore with a guy who listens to AM radio about nothing but sports, but I have to say that I'm a little surprised that Game of Shadows is on the bestseller list. I honestly didn't think THAT many people would care.
It kind of strikes me as sad that so many people would waste time worrying about who does steiroids and who doesn't.
Then again, it strikes me as sad that so many people feel the need to keep track of celebrities' lives the way they do so obsessively. A lot of these people should be worrying about their own lives instead of spending so much time (and money) to find out who's humping who and who's having a baby and whether or not someone is splitting up with their husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/dog/babysitter.
...Now if this were a debate over a crew team, you can bet I'd have read up on it.
~*Megan*~
"Wow, nice to meet you. Nine years huh? That's a really long time. Are you going to stab me or something? Because if you are, can we get it over with?" ~Jer
You are never stronger than when you land on the other side of despair. ~Zadie Smith, White Teeth
"Wow, nice to meet you. Nine years huh? That's a really long time. Are you going to stab me or something? Because if you are, can we get it over with?" ~Jer
You are never stronger than when you land on the other side of despair. ~Zadie Smith, White Teeth
First off, though I do not have concrete evidence of Barry Bonds using steroids, the simple viewing of pictures would do enough. Take a picture from the 2000 season, and Bonds is still rather slim. Take a picture of him from the 2003 season, when he was putting up ungodly numbers, you will see a striking difference.
Now, I am not saying it is impossible for a man to gain large amounts of muscle over a period of years naturally, but the fact that Bonds was in his late 30s and gaining close to 30lbs. of muscle on his frame is not. It is quite hard to believe that a man of his age can gain so much mass without adding any fat, considering the human body does not develop muscle at such an advanced age that well.
Another sign of his steroid use shows up on his face. Most men don't have acne breakouts in their 40s. It's just not natural. And if you view a picture of Bonds without a helmet back from 1991, you will see that his forehead is considerably smaller than it is now.
Also, when a person does steroids for an elongated period of time, the body of the user tends to break down over time. The body tends to be incapable of supporting such gains in muscle mass, and the joints of the body tend to become more frail and tear easily. After drug testing in Major League Baseball began, Bonds started to fall apart. In fact, Bonds missed nearly all of last year due to knee problems, and a couple seasons ago, he missed games due to shoulder and elbow problems. All of his problems resonated in specific joints that can become frail with the added mass from steroids.
Now onto the racial issue.
As much as I don't want to believe it, I do feel that race does have an effect on the attention Bonds is receiving, but not such a large roll.
Major League Baseball could care less if Bonds passes Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron on the home run list. The public, however, does care and does not want to see a supposed cheater hold the record for career home runs.
The reason Bonds is the focal point of the investigation is that he is very close to setting the record, and he is one of the few marquee names in the steroid scandal that is still active. Where as you still have big name players, such as Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, and Pudge Rodriguez in the league, they are nowhere near setting any significant records, at least not as significant as the home run record.
As for race, I feel comfortable saying that a majority of people in America do not care for a majority of people of other races or nationalities. Most baseball fans still tend to be white (as evidenced by myself at Detroit Tiger games) and, be it subconsciously or not, do not want to see a black man pass a white man in anything. Back when Hank Aaron passed Babe Ruth to set the record, he received death threats and intimidating letters on a daily basis when it came to passing Ruth.
Even though Aaron passed Ruth over 30 years ago, there is still an underlying racial tension in America, be it publicized or not. While Bonds might not receive death threats on a daily basis, and we are even further removed from the race riots and segregation of the 1960s, not much has changed in the attitude of the typical American person. Where the standard person will not go out and belittle a person based on race as frequently in the 1960s or 70s, there is still a great amount of tension and anger based on the past.
But this is all speculation, because I can't prove that racism has fallen over the years, because I can't get into someone's head and see what they are thinking, but I can almost guarantee that anyone that reads this post has at some point made some sort of racist remark or had a racist thought run through their head at some point, myself included. I cannot prove that Barry Bonds or Pudge Rodriguez or Mark McGuire did steroids in the past, but the physical change of these players also makes the standard person think otherwise.
Now, I am not saying it is impossible for a man to gain large amounts of muscle over a period of years naturally, but the fact that Bonds was in his late 30s and gaining close to 30lbs. of muscle on his frame is not. It is quite hard to believe that a man of his age can gain so much mass without adding any fat, considering the human body does not develop muscle at such an advanced age that well.
Another sign of his steroid use shows up on his face. Most men don't have acne breakouts in their 40s. It's just not natural. And if you view a picture of Bonds without a helmet back from 1991, you will see that his forehead is considerably smaller than it is now.
Also, when a person does steroids for an elongated period of time, the body of the user tends to break down over time. The body tends to be incapable of supporting such gains in muscle mass, and the joints of the body tend to become more frail and tear easily. After drug testing in Major League Baseball began, Bonds started to fall apart. In fact, Bonds missed nearly all of last year due to knee problems, and a couple seasons ago, he missed games due to shoulder and elbow problems. All of his problems resonated in specific joints that can become frail with the added mass from steroids.
Now onto the racial issue.
As much as I don't want to believe it, I do feel that race does have an effect on the attention Bonds is receiving, but not such a large roll.
Major League Baseball could care less if Bonds passes Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron on the home run list. The public, however, does care and does not want to see a supposed cheater hold the record for career home runs.
The reason Bonds is the focal point of the investigation is that he is very close to setting the record, and he is one of the few marquee names in the steroid scandal that is still active. Where as you still have big name players, such as Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, and Pudge Rodriguez in the league, they are nowhere near setting any significant records, at least not as significant as the home run record.
As for race, I feel comfortable saying that a majority of people in America do not care for a majority of people of other races or nationalities. Most baseball fans still tend to be white (as evidenced by myself at Detroit Tiger games) and, be it subconsciously or not, do not want to see a black man pass a white man in anything. Back when Hank Aaron passed Babe Ruth to set the record, he received death threats and intimidating letters on a daily basis when it came to passing Ruth.
Even though Aaron passed Ruth over 30 years ago, there is still an underlying racial tension in America, be it publicized or not. While Bonds might not receive death threats on a daily basis, and we are even further removed from the race riots and segregation of the 1960s, not much has changed in the attitude of the typical American person. Where the standard person will not go out and belittle a person based on race as frequently in the 1960s or 70s, there is still a great amount of tension and anger based on the past.
But this is all speculation, because I can't prove that racism has fallen over the years, because I can't get into someone's head and see what they are thinking, but I can almost guarantee that anyone that reads this post has at some point made some sort of racist remark or had a racist thought run through their head at some point, myself included. I cannot prove that Barry Bonds or Pudge Rodriguez or Mark McGuire did steroids in the past, but the physical change of these players also makes the standard person think otherwise.