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reza
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Post by reza »

Kathy14 wrote:Harper and the guys who are backing him literally scare the crap out of me... I fear what they will do to this country.

He has done a great job of making himself less scary and more 'center' this time around, but he comes across as well-coached and robotic. I know he still stands for the same things he did last time around, but he's doing a better job of hiding it and the party is doing a better job at keeping some of the radicals quiet. Although there have been a few supporters/candidates who have said things that made it into the media... most of these things question whether there should be equal rights for certain groups, such as thoughts that multiculturalism and immigration are bad for Canada, issues surrounding the role of women in society, gay rights, Christian religion and bringing it back into our government and schools, etc.

Harper spoke about how Ontario should better support the poorer Atlantic provinces, but if the discussion turns to Alberta sharing with the 'have-not' provinces, that's another story. " Harper joined with other western conservatives in co-authoring a document titled the Alberta Agenda. The letter called on Alberta to reform publicly-funded health care, replace the Canada Pension Plan with a similar provincial plan and replace the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) with a provincial police force. The document became known as the "firewall letter" because it called on the Alberta government to "build firewalls around Alberta" to prevent the federal government from redistributing the province's wealth to other parts of Canada." Hhmm... he sounds to me a like a leader with regional, not federal interests in mind. And his party sounds similar to the Bloc and their Quebec agenda.

There's a reason that US newspapers are calling him Bush Jr and saying he could be the best possible foreign leader in the eyes of Bush. He even said publicly in the US that he was ashamed of Canada for not joining in Iraq. At one point Martin also supported Iraq, until the moment the UN condemned it. Harper still says we should have sided with Bush and he incorrectly told the American media that a majority of Cdns agreed with him.

The Liberals are not squeaky clean but they'll get my vote. I was starting to think NDP until 1) Jack sounded like an infomercial actor in the debates and 2) they're too small in my riding, so it would be a waste of my vote. My riding will be extremely tight Liberals vs. Conservatives.

Sorry for the long-winded rant... this is a really touchy subject around here!


You just changed my mind, to voting Liberal. I live in Mississauga-Erindale and I suspect that my riding will be a very tight Liberal-Conservative race, and I don't think that the NDP have a chance in hell winning such a riding. I don't want to risk having Harper as PM. The conservatives can say whatever they want but bottom line is this: the sponsorship scandal was cheaper than the war in Iraq. I refuse to disallow immigration from certian countries, I refuse to acept a country in which we are persecuted for our religious beliefs and homosexuals are treated as second-class citizens. I'm a first-generation Canadian and I love this country dearly. Having Harper as PM makes me feel as though I might as well be in Saudi Arabia all over again.
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Post by dream in japanese »

i'm a deputy returning officer again for this election!!

this meaning i can rig the votes :heythere: but i have a feeling they'd find out and i'd get in a wee bit of trouble :roll: :lol:
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Post by thirdhour »

you? trouble? naaah!
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Post by Korzic »

If you want to know who's gonna win. Check with the bookies. They're NEVER wrong about this stuff. If the bookies have a clear favourite au contraire to the polls, pay attention to the bookies, you'll see that I'm right :)
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Post by Kathy »

laurel wrote:http://www.ctv.ca/mini/election2006/static/issues/index.html - wonderful website that sums up all the party stances on the key issues.


I found this a few weeks ago and I thought this was great until I realized that over 25 recent election announcements are not here... and the Liberal one hasn't been updated since the First Nations Reserve summit so that's all it contains, which is ridiculous.
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Post by Kathy »

frogger wrote:You just changed my mind, to voting Liberal. I live in Mississauga-Erindale and I suspect that my riding will be a very tight Liberal-Conservative race, and I don't think that the NDP have a chance in hell winning such a riding. I don't want to risk having Harper as PM. The conservatives can say whatever they want but bottom line is this: the sponsorship scandal was cheaper than the war in Iraq. I refuse to disallow immigration from certian countries, I refuse to acept a country in which we are persecuted for our religious beliefs and homosexuals are treated as second-class citizens. I'm a first-generation Canadian and I love this country dearly. Having Harper as PM makes me feel as though I might as well be in Saudi Arabia all over again.


Good for you for standing up for what you believe, and for the Canada that we love!

Paul Martin was on tv this morning and said he hopes Canadians will vote based on their values and which party reflects their values, versus a vote out of anger or spite for things that happened years ago in the Liberal party.

I don't ridicule anyone for their political choices. If someone's values match with the Conservatives and that's why they're voting that way, then go right ahead. But I wish everyone would look inside themselves and think about the value gap that exists between these two parties and then align themselves appropriately

(and I'm not meaning to exclude the other parties... I referring specifically to the top 2 federal parties)
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Post by Kathy »

Oh, and I forgot to mention... Erindale - wow you're close to me!! :)

And I believe that is my friend Omar's riding. He is the most amazing & compassionate person and unfortunately the start of this campaign started out with dirty politics and his name was smeared pretty badly. I hope once the truth came out that people became more understanding....
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Post by closeyoureyes »

My most serious worry facing a Conservative government, is deep integration with the USA. This isn't USA bashing, it is saying that we are two different countries, with different agendas, and we don't need to be any closer, especially when it comes to wars and defense and the military.

"Electing Stephen Harper will make Bush happy"

That sends SHIVERS up and down my spine.
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Post by Joe Cooler »

Those Liberal commercials are the biggest load of bull I have ever seen. Are the Liberals that low? Yes, yes they are. Am I voting conservative? Why yes I am. I know, I know, I'm a horrible person. But to tell you the truth, having Harper as PM won't turn canada "into Saudia Arabia." I find it rather hilarious that most of you here think Harper is the anti-christ. If he even gets in, it will be a minority government, which will stop him from passing all those "hate laws."
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Post by thirdhour »

I don't think anyone thinks that our country will hugely. drastically change with a change of government, especially a minority government.

However, Harper has talked about bringing up same-sex marriage, again. It seems like he just cannot accept that gay people have gotten rights. The issue came up, the law was changed, it went through due process. Civil rights aren't an issue that should go backwards. It went through both legal and political venues to arrive at a conclusion. I don't think it's fair to dangle rights in front of people and than snatch them away after just a year or two.

And it's also not fair to say that the Liberals are any lower than the other parties when it comes to attack ads. They use direct quotes, but both the NDP and the Conservatives are using attack ads as well. In fact, the conservatives have an attack ad to suggest that Paul Martin would run a negative campaign. Uh..that's what attack ads are, a negative campaign! The NDP have so many cutesy little ads talking about Liberal corruption that I barely know what their campaign's actually about, because they'd rather talk about that than themselves.

I'm not a Liberal supporter at all, I just don't think Stephan Harper is the best choice to lead this country, because he and I quite obviously have a very different belief system, because we disagree on the issues I would consider moral ones (war in Iraq, same-sex marriage.) I was going to see if any healthcare issues could be added to the list, but the Conservative website does not mention healthcare...oh wait, just found it. Apparently they don't consider healthcare a "key issue".

In terms of actually running the country, the main job of the prime minister, I think anyone who's seriously running understands the problems and just simply has different views on how to fix them. For instance, all parties recognize the need for an improvement in healthcare, but have to decide how best to go about doing that. All three parties sound great on this issue, but who knows how each of the plans will work out. All three parties are overlapping, it seems, with slightly different promises in the same sectors. They're all a lot more similar than they'd like to admit, but it's in the morals that I find my problems with the conservatives.

http://www.conservative.ca/EN/1141/
http://www.liberal.ca/party_e.aspx?id=2
http://www.ndp.ca/backgrounders
http://www.greenparty.ca/greenvalues.ht ... 115:3.html
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Post by Joe Cooler »

The big issue for me is abortion. Yes, I know the Conservatives are not necessarily againts it, but my local conservative representative is, and that is one reason I am voting for him. Will abortion become illegal if he gets in? No probably not, but at least there is someone giving me a voice. To me, the RIGHT of the unborn to live is not something I can pass over.
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Post by superrgirll »

Kathy14 wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention... Erindale - wow you're close to me!! :)

i go to utm :GASP:
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Post by thirdhour »

Joe Cooler wrote:The big issue for me is abortion. Yes, I know the Conservatives are not necessarily againts it, but my local conservative representative is, and that is one reason I am voting for him. Will abortion become illegal if he gets in? No probably not, but at least there is someone giving me a voice. To me, the RIGHT of the unborn to live is not something I can pass over.


Ok then, that's fair. Perfectly good reason to support a particular candidate. But you have to accept that since you feel so strongly about it, other people will to (in the other direction), and therefore will be against conservatives/Harper.
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Post by Kathy »

superrgirll wrote:
Kathy14 wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention... Erindale - wow you're close to me!! :)

i go to utm :GASP:


:GASP: hi neighbour! <img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/kbell14/wavey.gif" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

I work at Erin Mills Pkwy and the 401. I've lived in Miss. since I finished university (2+ years ago)
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Post by Kathy »

Joe Cooler wrote:Those Liberal commercials are the biggest load of bull I have ever seen. Are the Liberals that low? Yes, yes they are. Am I voting conservative? Why yes I am. I know, I know, I'm a horrible person. But to tell you the truth, having Harper as PM won't turn canada "into Saudia Arabia." I find it rather hilarious that most of you here think Harper is the anti-christ. If he even gets in, it will be a minority government, which will stop him from passing all those "hate laws."


For the most part they are not actually a load of bull... many of them are quotes that Stephen Harper actually said. And even though the Conservatives are crying foul, most of their ads have been the same negative type (quotes from Gomery, etc, without actually talking policy). There are a few quotes taken out of context and/or stretched... this exists in ads from both parties.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... TPNational

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... TPNational
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Post by don't ask why »

you know what's funny? we go through the hard years pinching pennies and finally balancing a budget. and now the parties all want to throw it away. do you realize that with the liberals tax cuts and the budget surplus, we'd go 6 billion over-budget? with the conservatives, it would be 20 billion, and with the NDP it would be 30 billion? folks, that's not chump change. politics is all about propaganda. and whoever can spread the best propaganda wins.
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Post by Joe Cooler »

Kathy14 wrote:
Joe Cooler wrote:Those Liberal commercials are the biggest load of bull I have ever seen. Are the Liberals that low? Yes, yes they are. Am I voting conservative? Why yes I am. I know, I know, I'm a horrible person. But to tell you the truth, having Harper as PM won't turn canada "into Saudia Arabia." I find it rather hilarious that most of you here think Harper is the anti-christ. If he even gets in, it will be a minority government, which will stop him from passing all those "hate laws."


For the most part they are not actually a load of bull... many of them are quotes that Stephen Harper actually said. And even though the Conservatives are crying foul, most of their ads have been the same negative type (quotes from Gomery, etc, without actually talking policy). There are a few quotes taken out of context and/or stretched... this exists in ads from both parties.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... TPNational

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... TPNational


I never said the Conservative ads were any better. It simply bothers me that instead of adressing the issues, each party has stooped to taking shorts and low blows at each other. From what I've seen though, the Liberal ads seem to be particulary foul.
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Post by closeyoureyes »

Joe Cooler wrote:Those Liberal commercials are the biggest load of bull I have ever seen.

*cough*
http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/2 ... -4938r.htm
The Washington Times wrote:Why does President Bush hope Christmas comes a little late this year? Because on Jan. 23, Canada may elect the most pro-American leader in the Western world. Free-market economist Stephen Harper, leader of the opposition Conservative Party, is pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto, and socially conservative. Move over Tony Blair: If elected, Mr. Harper will quickly become Mr. Bush's new best friend internationally and the poster boy for his ideal foreign leader.


Thats an excerpt from a Newspaper in Washington D.C. Not all the attack ads are bull.


As for repealing the gay marriage law, it won't happen. He can't accept its done, whatever, but he would have to ask the Senate to repeal it. And the senate won't repeal a law it just passed. So he'd need to go to the Govener General, who also approved the law, so he'd have to go to the Queen, who also had no objection. Therefore, he should stop promising to have a free vote on something that is already a law :lol: .

Joe Cooler wrote:The big issue for me is abortion. Yes, I know the Conservatives are not necessarily againts it, but my local conservative representative is, and that is one reason I am voting for him. Will abortion become illegal if he gets in? No probably not, but at least there is someone giving me a voice. To me, the RIGHT of the unborn to live is not something I can pass over.

Doesn't it bother you though, that your candidate, Maurice, has sacrificed his real view of abortion to be in the Conservative Party? Because as it stands, they are pro abortion, and would severely clamp down on any member who introduces legislation. Harper says himself he will not support it. So really you're not voting for the right of the unborn at all. You're throwing it away. Vote CHP.
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Post by Joe Cooler »

closeyoureyes wrote:
Joe Cooler wrote:Those Liberal commercials are the biggest load of bull I have ever seen.

*cough*
http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/2 ... -4938r.htm
The Washington Times wrote:Why does President Bush hope Christmas comes a little late this year? Because on Jan. 23, Canada may elect the most pro-American leader in the Western world. Free-market economist Stephen Harper, leader of the opposition Conservative Party, is pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto, and socially conservative. Move over Tony Blair: If elected, Mr. Harper will quickly become Mr. Bush's new best friend internationally and the poster boy for his ideal foreign leader.


Thats an excerpt from a Newspaper in Washington D.C. Not all the attack ads are bull.


As for repealing the gay marriage law, it won't happen. He can't accept its done, whatever, but he would have to ask the Senate to repeal it. And the senate won't repeal a law it just passed. So he'd need to go to the Govener General, who also approved the law, so he'd have to go to the Queen, who also had no objection. Therefore, he should stop promising to have a free vote on something that is already a law :lol: .

Joe Cooler wrote:The big issue for me is abortion. Yes, I know the Conservatives are not necessarily againts it, but my local conservative representative is, and that is one reason I am voting for him. Will abortion become illegal if he gets in? No probably not, but at least there is someone giving me a voice. To me, the RIGHT of the unborn to live is not something I can pass over.

Doesn't it bother you though, that your candidate, Maurice, has sacrificed his real view of abortion to be in the Conservative Party? Because as it stands, they are pro abortion, and would severely clamp down on any member who introduces legislation. Harper says himself he will not support it. So really you're not voting for the right of the unborn at all. You're throwing it away. Vote CHP.


Whether or not the article being quoted by the Liberals, exists or not means little to me. Its the fact that they'd actually quote that article in the first place that bothers me.

Secondly Sinead, no it does not bother me. In fact, I'm rather suprised that you'd say something as absurd as "vote CHP." If I am not mistaken the Conservatives are not pro-abortion. They simply will not try to challenge the law. Secondly, even if Harper is for abortion, Maurice is not. As it stands, he is the only candidate againts it in my riding. I am not throwing my vote away. Throwing my vote away would be supporting a party that believes that abortion is somehow a "womens right."
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Post by thirdhour »

The point you brought up is proof, I think, of a major flaw in our electoral system. You support a candidate with some views different than those of the party he represents, which kind of puts you in a tight place (though I definatly agree with voting for the person rather than just the party.)

The party system seems to be the only way that democracy has ever historically worked, but the point of democracy is the idea of voting for someone representing the masses. Each area of canada votes for someone to represent them. That's where that person's loyalty should lie, with the people they are supposed to represent, not with the national party, but MPs are in most cases expected to vote along party lines, which makes it so that people will vote for parties over people, which doesn't exactly form a strong government.

I dunno, I love politics and I'm certainly not jaded when it comes to it, but I think there needs to be a drastic change in the way government works that won't simply be fixed by which party is in power. It seems to me that parliment should be a group of people working together to try and find solutions for canada's problems, not four seperate groups trying to get at each other's throats. That doesn't really help anyone. Our government is built on an ideology of 'winners' and 'losers', which results in a super negative approach.
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