God raised Jesus from the dead (mathematically proven!)

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 10/18/2005, 11:47 pm

It does not say that Jesus was not born, infact it probably supports it more in the show then otherwise, but proves that the Biblical texts are incorrect on many issues. He was born sometime in April the estimated.

I swear I knew this, and that it is commonly accepted. Maybe it's a Mormon thing. I don't really know. But we don't think he was born at Christmas...we just celebrate cause that's when everyone else does it too.

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 10/18/2005, 11:52 pm

yeah i knew that part. But this show was proving that the real date was incorrect aswell. I just can't remember when it was. It said that if he was really born in that region, it was in early april.

thirdhour · Post by **thirdhour** » 10/19/2005, 12:45 am

yeah, its common knowledge that december 25th is just a day we made up to correspond with winter festivals of other cultures.

Come to think of it, I don't even know when the calender we use was invented.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 10/19/2005, 12:22 pm

I AM ME wrote:
But 90% of the reason i beleive that it didn't happen is because i believe ressurection to be immposible. Scientifically so. Or at least such technologies will not be developed anytime soon, or even in the near future, and certainly not then.

Miracles by defintion are impossible. If an event, no matter how extraordinary, can be explained by scientific or natural law, it is not a miracle. Miracles exist outside natural law. They are only made possible through divine intervention.

In a completly pointless other point because i doubt i can back it up with sources. I recently saw a documentary that proved through astronomy and other science that Jesus was not infact born when the Bible says he was. It does t his by using facts from the Bible, and then prove that it can not have happened. It does not say that Jesus was not born, infact it probably supports it more in the show then otherwise, but proves that the Biblical texts are incorrect on many issues. He was born sometime in April the estimated.

You'd be wrong on this account. No where in the Bible will you find the actual date Jesus was born on or even the month. It simply says that Jesus was born during the time of King Herod.

The idea that this documentry "proves Biblical texts are incorrect" is ridiculous. If it does not even recognize that the Bible says nothing a date, then I'd seriously question every other claim it made.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 10/19/2005, 12:49 pm

Anyway, once my essay is complete, I'd appreciate it if someone from the CM was willing to read it over. Considering i'm going to a Christian College, I think it would be useful if I got the opinion of someone who is not Christian.

Post by **faninor** » 10/19/2005, 1:47 pm

I AM ME wrote:In a completly pointless other point because i doubt i can back it up with sources. I recently saw a documentary that proved through astronomy and other science that Jesus was not infact born when the Bible says he was. It does t his by using facts from the Bible, and then prove that it can not have happened. It does not say that Jesus was not born, infact it probably supports it more in the show then otherwise, but proves that the Biblical texts are incorrect on many issues. He was born sometime in April the estimated.

He was also born more than 2005 years ago. Christmas actually originated from a pagan holiday. I think Christians borrowed some of the ideas of the holiday, and the time of the year that it was celebrated, to try to get people who didn't want to give up that holiday to convert to Christianity.

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 10/19/2005, 1:48 pm

Joe Cooler wrote:
I AM ME wrote:
You'd be wrong on this account. No where in the Bible will you find the actual date Jesus was born on or even the month. It simply says that Jesus was born during the time of King Herod.

The idea that this documentry "proves Biblical texts are incorrect" is ridiculous. If it does not even recognize that the Bible says nothing a date, then I'd seriously question every other claim it made.

Yeah that's the problem, it's a program that i saw last Christmas on The Discovery Network. I only vaguely remember it, so i'm not doing it any justice. I'll see if i can look it up. All i remember is that they said Jesus Christ could have been born, but it was in spring and not on the date they thought. Perhaps they were saying it coudln't have been during the time of King Herod

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 10/19/2005, 1:56 pm

faninor wrote:He was also born more than 2005 years ago. Christmas actually originated from a pagan holiday. I think Christians borrowed some of the ideas of the holiday, and the time of the year that it was celebrated, to try to get people who didn't want to give up that holiday to convert to Christianity.

a ton of things are like that, including church on sunday instead of on the sabbath like in the jewish tradition. it's shameless.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 10/19/2005, 3:17 pm

I AM ME wrote:
Joe Cooler wrote:
I AM ME wrote:
You'd be wrong on this account. No where in the Bible will you find the actual date Jesus was born on or even the month. It simply says that Jesus was born during the time of King Herod.

The idea that this documentry "proves Biblical texts are incorrect" is ridiculous. If it does not even recognize that the Bible says nothing a date, then I'd seriously question every other claim it made.

Yeah that's the problem, it's a program that i saw last Christmas on The Discovery Network. I only vaguely remember it, so i'm not doing it any justice. I'll see if i can look it up. All i remember is that they said Jesus Christ could have been born, but it was in spring and not on the date they thought. Perhaps they were saying it coudln't have been during the time of King Herod

Perhaps, but I doubt it. Whether Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the great has been an issue for archeologists for quite some time. Why? Because the original census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem was conducted by Quirinius who began ruling in 6 A.D. Herod the great died in 4 A.D, thus it appears that there is a major discrepancy in dates. However, various archeologists have noted that Quirinius actually may have ruled on two seperate occasions. His first term in rule would have coincided with the life of Herod, thus proving that Jesus was infact born under the Rule of Herod. It should also be noted that Luke's text (the book mentioning Jesus' birth under Herod) can be translated to read "The census took place before Quirinius was governing Syria."

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 10/19/2005, 3:21 pm

happening fish wrote:
faninor wrote:He was also born more than 2005 years ago. Christmas actually originated from a pagan holiday. I think Christians borrowed some of the ideas of the holiday, and the time of the year that it was celebrated, to try to get people who didn't want to give up that holiday to convert to Christianity.

a ton of things are like that, including church on sunday instead of on the sabbath like in the jewish tradition. it's shameless.

Church is on Sunday because Jesus is said to have rose on Sunday, not because early Christians wanted to override the Sabbath. Geez guys, be careful what you assume.

Post by **faninor** » 10/19/2005, 3:27 pm

Joe Cooler wrote:Whether Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the great has been an issue for archeologists for quite some time. Why? Because the original census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem was conducted by Quirinius who began ruling in 6 A.D. Herod the great died in 4 A.D, thus it appears that there is a major discrepancy in dates.

I thought Herod died in like 4 BC.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 10/19/2005, 3:30 pm

faninor wrote:
Joe Cooler wrote:Whether Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the great has been an issue for archeologists for quite some time. Why? Because the original census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem was conducted by Quirinius who began ruling in 6 A.D. Herod the great died in 4 A.D, thus it appears that there is a major discrepancy in dates.

I thought Herod died in like 4 BC.

He did. That was a mistake/typo on my part.

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 10/19/2005, 3:32 pm

Joe Cooler wrote:
happening fish wrote:
faninor wrote:He was also born more than 2005 years ago. Christmas actually originated from a pagan holiday. I think Christians borrowed some of the ideas of the holiday, and the time of the year that it was celebrated, to try to get people who didn't want to give up that holiday to convert to Christianity.

a ton of things are like that, including church on sunday instead of on the sabbath like in the jewish tradition. it's shameless.

Church is on Sunday because Jesus is said to have rose on Sunday, not because early Christians wanted to override the Sabbath. Geez guys, be careful what you assume.

As far as i know, it was held on Sundays due to Sabbath, perhaps Jesus' rose comment was because he was a Jew.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 10/19/2005, 3:45 pm

Assume? Excuse me?
In that case, since you're so much better researched than I am, explain to the nice people why it's called "Sun Day"

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 10/19/2005, 3:46 pm

I'm quite positive it was because he rose on Sunday. Early christians held meetings in celebration of this. Regardless, I don't see how holding church on a sunday can be seen as an attempt to replace the Sabbath. The Sabbath is on Saturday not Sunday.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 10/19/2005, 3:47 pm

I didn't say it was an attempt to replace the Sabbath. Go read that again.
We're talking about how it was an attempt to replace existing pagan practices with the purpose of overriding and deleting them from people's consciousness.

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 10/19/2005, 3:48 pm

actually Alex is right on this one

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 10/19/2005, 3:48 pm

happening fish wrote:Assume? Excuse me?
In that case, since you're so much better researched than I am, explain to the nice people why it's called "Sun Day"

Huh? I'm lost.

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 10/19/2005, 3:49 pm

hmmm she might be doing the same thing, but i'll look it up if she isn't.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 10/19/2005, 3:51 pm

happening fish wrote:I didn't say it was an attempt to replace the Sabbath. Go read that again.
We're talking about how it was an attempt to replace existing pagan practices with the purpose of overriding and deleting them from people's consciousness.

I did read it again and I still think what you said suggests otherwise. Regardless it's clear that we are arguing completely different things. My bad.