US to tighten border with Canada/Mexico

Post by **xjsb125** » 4/12/2005, 8:03 am

The majority of consumers will almost always demand lower prices for consumable goods. Suppliers can profit in the long run by selling at a lower price if they can increase the volume of units they sell. Minimizing costs is one of the keys to having a successful business, and the business in this case is farming. If farmers pass along their costs to consumers, then consumers will look for another source of the product. I'm not saying it's better at all, it's just the unfortunate way the economy works.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 4/12/2005, 10:24 am

Well, then I guess we better keep paying those illegals 2 cents an hour.

And you don't have to explain it to me eight times. I know how supply in demand works. I'm just idealistic and would like to improve instead of getting worse.

modern psychokitty · Post by **modern psychokitty** » 4/13/2005, 1:27 pm

Soozy wrote:
Now for my rant about the stupid US border. I know it's nothing like what Sand and Raffia have to deal with, but still frustrating ...

I don't have problems getting into the States. They just don't let me in.

Now maybe the rest of you will learn what it feels like!

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 4/15/2005, 1:02 pm

Cass wrote:Not all illegals pay taxes. If they are working illegally on ranches and farms, they're not paying taxes. I do think they should be entitles to all those things, but they should HAVE to become a citizen, and not every person who simply sets foot on the soil should be made a citizen. There are just far too many people in the world for that now.

actually, if they're working on farms, they're paying into social security. i know this cause my dad is gonna get social security (along with TRS) because he worked along side illegal immigrants that did in fact pay taxes. i have another question. should they become citizens before they pay taxes?

speaking on behalf of lettuce, wasn't there a farm in southern arizona that was losing 1 million dollars a day because the farmer didn't have the workers (from mexico) to pick his crops? that's what those vigilanties are doing, scaring or catching this one farmer's workforce away. he's losing out on money cass, to begin with farming and ranching is for the most part not very profitable, and it's a thankless job. you and i know this. so in this instance, wouldn't it be ok to have his laborforce given back to him so that he could at minimize his losses?

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 4/15/2005, 1:07 pm

No, it's not ok. That's like putting a band aid over your slit throat. It will help for a little while. But the illegal workers are just getting paid less and less, while food prices go down and down, and then it will crash and burn. My beef is that it shouldn't be a thankless job. It should be up there with doctor and lawyer.

How can they pay into social security if they're being paid under the table?

All illegals should come here with the intention of beoming a citizen. This way, if they are paying taxes on their income, then when they do (and they will because that has always been their intention), they will benefit from the taxation just like everybody else.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 4/15/2005, 2:03 pm

Cass wrote:No, it's not ok. That's like putting a band aid over your slit throat. It will help for a little while. But the illegal workers are just getting paid less and less, while food prices go down and down, and then it will crash and burn. My beef is that it shouldn't be a thankless job. It should be up there with doctor and lawyer.

How can they pay into social security if they're being paid under the table?

All illegals should come here with the intention of beoming a citizen. This way, if they are paying taxes on their income, then when they do (and they will because that has always been their intention), they will benefit from the taxation just like everybody else.

to begin with government subsidizes farmers, so more than likely the US government is gonna buy crops and give it away to countries that are battling famine or hunger. if you grow it, someone is gonna buy it. the problem here is that no one is going to buy a product (the lettuce) that's just sitting in the ground rotting away. it needs to be picked, it needs to get processed and it's gonna get sold. if imports get too out of hand, we have tariffs. and i can't help you with moving farmer up to the status as doctor and lawyer. if i had my way, teachers would be up there too.

it's true some get paid under the table. most however are actually processed, screened, and then hired. (at least here in TexAs anyway) so yes, some pay social security too.

most illegals come over with the intention to eventually become a citizen. a few have actually married into my family, and in doing so have been nationalized. (it used to be if you married a US citizen you were nationalized) i want to know though, what bothers you all the most about illegals coming into the US?

is it the drugs? because the CIA brings drugs into the states too. hell, drug money 'forfeitures' buy your police new cars, guns, equipment. they even line the pockets of your local sheriff's and police chiefs. cause federal funding sure as hell isn't going to buy all that stuff for cops, not while budgets across the board are getting slashed. most immigrants want to work though, it's only the lazy ones that want to sell you drugs. more importantly, drugs are something the US is in love with, all people selling are doing is solving the US's craving for junk.

cheep labor? tariffs can solve the problems of the farmers, but your president is busy fighting a war, he's busy protecting you, not really helping you. (as if he could do either). besides, the labor pool is shrinking. baby boomers are retiring so the service market is gonna boom and we need able bodies to perform services. who's ever seen a boss say 'hey were not paying that one guy enough.'? another thing cheep labor does is it brings down the cost of living as well, to accommodate for those who don't make alot of money.

no assimilation? hey, we learned English, it's time y'all learned a language. i can't help but have a sneaking suspicion this is the problem many people are having with illegal immigrants.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 4/15/2005, 5:50 pm

I think ya'll should keep your language. That's not it at all.

I think you just secretly think I am racist. Which really isn't the deal, and if you knew me at all Reno, you'd know otherwise.

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 4/15/2005, 7:26 pm

Reno has very valid points. In his spiel, not against you Cassie.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 4/15/2005, 8:09 pm

I don't have anything against them at all. All I am against is the unstemmed current. I never said anything about them not learning our language, which is usually used as an argument when there's no argument.

Post by **xjsb125** » 4/16/2005, 9:11 am

Bandalero wrote:no assimilation? hey, we learned English, it's time y'all learned a language. i can't help but have a sneaking suspicion this is the problem many people are having with illegal immigrants.

The problem I have with illegal immigrants is that whole "illegal" thing. If they are going to live and work here, then they need to follow the steps to becoming legal residents to receive the benefits that go along with citizenship. I do agree that Spanish needs to be a language that is taught from the elementary level on up as a required course. But to say that people don't want to learn Spanish as a reason for resent against illegals is a poor statement for someone to make.

Lando · Post by **Lando** » 4/16/2005, 5:27 pm

I think if everyone spoke Landonese, things would be much better off!

modern psychokitty · Post by **modern psychokitty** » 4/16/2005, 11:39 pm

But you don't speak Landonese.

Unless English is really Landonese... *has revelation*

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 4/19/2005, 11:43 pm

xjsb125 wrote:The problem I have with illegal immigrants is that whole "illegal" thing. If they are going to live and work here, then they need to follow the steps to becoming legal residents to receive the benefits that go along with citizenship. I do agree that Spanish needs to be a language that is taught from the elementary level on up as a required course. But to say that people don't want to learn Spanish as a reason for resent against illegals is a poor statement for someone to make.

so why do so many employers create a demand for illegal immigrant workforce? furthermore, why does the consumer's thirst for cheaper products create a demand for illegal immigrants? you can't have it both ways, your either going to have higher prices and work not done, or your going to have immigrants working for pay that might be crap to me and you, but to them it's a good honest pay to them. if we have a shrinking labor force (and we do), were going to need immigrants to pick up the jobs that will soon be void of proper labor. were not going to need them three years from now, after all the paperwork and bullshit is cut through (the time it takes to actually nationalize an immigrant), we need them now.
it's funny how were all reaping the benefits of foriegn labor, yet we complain about the illegality of it all. the truth is government officials want undocumented workers here, in fact i'll go as far as saying we need them here. i can almost promise you that if you were to add up the cost of having undocumented workers in the country, it still wouldn't compare to the amount of revenue this country makes off the backs of illegal immigrants. if government wanted to it would man the borders and make it impossible to cross. the honest truth is that government just doesn't want to do it because it's too damn profitable.

what should be illegal is the way government profits off of undocumented workers and then puts up a facade that we don't really want undocumented workers in the states. look at the minimal fines that are imposed on companies that employ undocumented workers, it's almost humorous. so honestly, if it's profitable and we all benefit from it, what's the problem? it's illegal to share music online, but it's saving you money, so do people still do it? of course, you'll have the few that have their scruples about it, but for the most part, it's generally viewed as ok to engage in this activity, so it's done.

i'm sorry if i've been racially charged lately. i don't know how it works up north, but these days down here everything is racially charged, the elections sports, schools, ect. it's always been that way, down here and it probably always will. just like everything else, you will have those few that do not want immigrants from Mexico because they don't want to learn the language, or be exposed to another culture. it's not a sorry statement to make, it's the truth, however, it is very rare. what's going on in southern arizona is a prime example of that. they don't have the guts to not be armed or do it in California or TexAs where side arms are not permitted.

anyhow, i didn't mean to target anyone individual on the cm and call them racist. that was not the point of the previous statement. the point i'm trying to make is that for those out in southern AZ, i'm almost positive that is their motive.

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 4/20/2005, 12:51 am

Reno... I think you're missing everyone here's point. They're saying that immigrants are perfectly fine; nobody has any problems with cultures merging or what-have-you (at least I haven't gotten that from any posts, and if anyone feels that way, they've kept it to themselves). It's the "illegal" part that's bothering people.

This isn't my opinion. Frankly, I don't have an opinion on the whole thing. Just trying to clear things up from an un-biased point of view. (I think... at least that's what I've concluded from everyone's posts... I might be wrong.)

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 4/20/2005, 1:21 am

i understand, but what i'm saying is everyone profits from this illegal activity, so what's the problem? yes it's wrong, and it shouldn't be done, they should go through the proper avenues and what not, but why does it matter if money is being made?

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 4/20/2005, 1:22 am

reno. the minuteman program is expanding to Cali and some other southern states
plus michigan and idaho to keep out them pesky canadians :nod:

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 4/20/2005, 1:35 am

Like Canadians would sneak into the US :roll:

Mind you, maybe drug smugglers or something.
*shrugs*

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 4/20/2005, 10:10 am

Actually, I have some friends who did sneak into American from Canada.

i understand, but what i'm saying is everyone profits from this illegal activity, so what's the problem? yes it's wrong, and it shouldn't be done, they should go through the proper avenues and what not, but why does it matter if money is being made?

Because, money is not the motivation for everything. We should be willing to pay a little more, to pay our people a little more. Whether it comes to Wal Mart or agriculture. You said that some of them sell drugs and that also makes us money. That's kind of horrible if you ask me.

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 4/20/2005, 9:55 pm

in a market based economy money is everything.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 4/20/2005, 10:13 pm

But it shouldn't determine our morals.