Cass wrote:Farmers and ranchers make nothing in the market. I think this is what you are saying, because we import MORE than we export, which is absolutely ridiculious. If we were self relient, then agricultural people would make plenty of money. I'm sorry, I have nothing against any country. But we should all strive for what is best for the country without IMPOSING (that doesn't include them feeling "left out") on other countries. Then we wouldn't have to hire illegals and people who worked for the farmers wouldn't be wallowing in the poverty level.
not entirely what i meant actually..
given the current level of consumption of food in the industrial nations it'd be difficult for them to be self-sufficient for one thing.. and for another even if they were self-sufficient they (the farmers) still wouldnt necessarily make enough money. given the current state of society and its insistance on monetary wealth and material possessions the likelihood of one taking a job of that nature for long periods of time isnt going to be high due to the backbreaking labour and the low wages. it just makes things easier for the farmers with the government involved in that manner
and reno.. i see.. i wondered where that was coming from
Soozy wrote:Thankfully I've not yet ever had to admit to staying with/meeting up with people I only know from the internet.
I had to do that last time!
The first time I went to Canada, I got asked no questions and just had to show ID. When we came back, we only got asked a few questions. When I went to Toronto last October, I got the same round of questions as Sooz. Where am I going, for how long, who am I staying with, who do I work for, etc. Coming back wasn't any hassle at all, just a few simple questions.
<nam_kablam> I'll be naked holding a ":O" sign while pumping their door
cass, anyone paying US taxes is entitled to US benefits. in the 1700's, y'all were paying english taxes and had no representation. a fight broke out and were not paying english taxes anymore are we? is that what is going to have to happen here?
The difference is, Americans weren't immigrating to England and then asking not to pay their taxes. That is an entirely different situation.
And Sand, there is so much space on this continent to grow food. Granted, we can't grow everything, but we can grow what we need. Easily. That is what is so amazing about America...and Canada. I'm worried that we are going to have a disaster someday, and we're gonna be standing around with our hands on our butts wondering why the farmers aren't growing more food. SURPRISE, it's cause you imported it from God knows where and now we've lost the ability and expertise. There are plenty of people who would be willing to be farmers and ranchers. That is what pisses me off about this society. That kind of life is looked down upon. If we were growing our food, then we'd pay normal amounts for it, and then the farmers would be able to pay the labor normal amounts.
i dont think its so much that the kind of life is looked down upon as it is hard work with not enough monetary reimbursement
plus the whole "big city lure" thing
Soozy wrote:Then they scan my suitcase and mistake the easter eggs I have in there for fruit so I have to unpack everything to show them!!
They're yummy, though!!!
Soozy wrote:Thankfully I've not yet ever had to admit to staying with/meeting up with people I only know from the internet.
We have!!! That's totally how we answered when we were headed to Alex's place. It was awesome.
xoNoDoubt69 wrote:i was at the county store today and took notice that effective last month there was yet another fee added to the passport fee. so now to get a brand new passport it's almost 100 dollars
Aewitoutaiwe;htoawytwiytwyt!!! I don't know when mine expires, but when it does, I sure am not gonna wanna pay 100 freaking dollars just to leave this country.
Is it just me, or should passports be FREE? Why are they so freaking determined to keep us in this country. Travelling costs enough without the passport.
Cass wrote:That is what pisses me off about this society. That kind of life is looked down upon.
I'd just like to say for the record that I don't look down upon farmers one bit. I admire them for their VERY hard work, which is actually work that's necessary in society, unlike a lot of other jobs that people get paid a lot more for.
<table><tr><td>~ Nikki Edwards Queen of the Harpies <img src="../phpBB2/files/queen_of_harpies.gif" align="texttop"></td><td><font color="orange">President of the Pookie Brigade</font> "If you put those on the internet, I'll kill you guys!" - Jer</td></tr></table>
<center><img src="../phpBB2/files/squiggle.gif">
<font color="#3C8C8B">Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky, imagine all the people, <font color="#FFFFFF">living</font> for today...</font>
<font color="#50B4B3">Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do, nothing to kill or die for, no religion too, imagine all the people, living <font color="#FFFFFF">life</font> in peace...</font>
So how do the people react when you tell them the whole 'internet friends' thing?
Open your eyes to nights and days, you close them up and float away and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
Soozy wrote:So how do the people react when you tell them the whole 'internet friends' thing?
I got a raised eyebrow. After that I got out of my truck and laid the smack down in a violent manner, yelled that I had some illegal firewood in the bed of my truck, and drove off.
Ok maybe that didn't happen. But I did get a raised eyebrow and some more questions. I like how the signs at the border are all about not bringing firewood into the country, but make little or no mention of guns, knives, nuclear explosives, etc.
<nam_kablam> I'll be naked holding a ":O" sign while pumping their door
i dont think its so much that the kind of life is looked down upon as it is hard work with not enough monetary reimbursement plus the whole "big city lure" thing
EXACTLY! It's our own fault for not paying our agricultural people more for their products. It doesn't have to be this way.
i honestly dont think the consumers would be pleased
they'd be screaming bloody murder to the politicians who would then have nothing to do because of GATT
Soozy wrote:So how do the people react when you tell them the whole 'internet friends' thing?
We got a strange look, I believe. Before we said it, there was kind of a pause in the car, though. It was like:
"... and how do you know this person?"
*dead silence*... "well...."
It was great.
<table><tr><td>~ Nikki Edwards Queen of the Harpies <img src="../phpBB2/files/queen_of_harpies.gif" align="texttop"></td><td><font color="orange">President of the Pookie Brigade</font> "If you put those on the internet, I'll kill you guys!" - Jer</td></tr></table>
<center><img src="../phpBB2/files/squiggle.gif">
<font color="#3C8C8B">Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky, imagine all the people, <font color="#FFFFFF">living</font> for today...</font>
<font color="#50B4B3">Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do, nothing to kill or die for, no religion too, imagine all the people, living <font color="#FFFFFF">life</font> in peace...</font>
i honestly dont think the consumers would be pleased they'd be screaming bloody murder to the politicians who would then have nothing to do because of GATT
Sand, I respect you. But you think it's better to have illegals do the work for nothing? That's not better for the illegals, or for us. Sometimes change hurts. Sometimes you have to pay a little more to get a little more. That's how it is with economy. Food isn't something you can skimp on. I am so frustrated.
cass, anyone paying US taxes is entitled to US benefits. in the 1700's, y'all were paying english taxes and had no representation. a fight broke out and were not paying english taxes anymore are we? is that what is going to have to happen here?
The difference is, Americans weren't immigrating to England and then asking not to pay their taxes. That is an entirely different situation.
no one is asking not to pay the taxes, there's not a single illegal out there that's asking that, simply because they know that taxes are a common thing. however taxes fund the government and fund all services supplied by the government. so if your going to be paying the government for services, then why are they not entitled to them? if you look at it this way it only raises more questions, why is a Mexican National paying US taxes? and since he's paying those taxes, why is he not entitled to the same benifits as other tax paying peoples in this land? if you pay into a system, don't you get a return?
public schools in TexAs are funded by property taxes, TEA, and sales taxes. illegals don't own land yet, but they pay sales taxes and other taxes that fund TEA(TexAs education agency). in the event that a Mexican National owns land he'll pay property taxes as well. His/Her own child should be entitled to go to a public school, simply because he pays into the same system that funds that school. Agree?
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road. my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load. gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
Not all illegals pay taxes. If they are working illegally on ranches and farms, they're not paying taxes. I do think they should be entitles to all those things, but they should HAVE to become a citizen, and not every person who simply sets foot on the soil should be made a citizen. There are just far too many people in the world for that now.
i honestly dont think the consumers would be pleased they'd be screaming bloody murder to the politicians who would then have nothing to do because of GATT
Sand, I respect you. But you think it's better to have illegals do the work for nothing? That's not better for the illegals, or for us. Sometimes change hurts. Sometimes you have to pay a little more to get a little more. That's how it is with economy. Food isn't something you can skimp on. I am so frustrated.
its not a little more
its a lot more
and you wont be getting more for it
think about it this way (hypothetically speaking), if an illegal is paid minimum wage and allowed to work on the harvest, the farmers can sell at the current prices.. if however that same farmer has to pay competitive wages and compete with companies like walmart or mcdonalds etc etc for employees then he's going to have go beyond the current levels of wages and such. thus, the price goes up. if a head of lettuce now costs 1.50 for example.. and if the farmer is only left with 40 cents per head... what happens if his costs associated with harvesting his crop go up 3 times? 4 times in order to compete with other businesses and to hire people? what then? do you honestly think consumers would just chalk it upto to being market economics and be willing to pay 3-5 bucks for the same head of lettuce they used to get for 1.50?
Just a question I have, Sand are your parents US citizens now, or are they only in the US on a work visa? If it's the latter, are they allowed to vote?
Illegal workers should be eligible for US benefits when they become legally in the US. I can't think of how to word my case for this, but I'll come back to it later when I put it together.
<nam_kablam> I'll be naked holding a ":O" sign while pumping their door
The thing is, it is worth $3. I don't care if the consumers don't like it. The people will be better off in the long run. I can't argue this any more. I don't see your logic at all.
If the consumers don't like it because of price, then retailers will be forced purchase the item from a less expensive source which is often an import.
<nam_kablam> I'll be naked holding a ":O" sign while pumping their door
Obviously we should keep doing that, and drive the people who raise our food into poverty. That is way better than paying two dollars more for a head of lettuce.
I had to do that last time!
They're yummy, though!!! 
We have!!! That's totally how we answered when we were headed to Alex's place. It was awesome. 
