US to tighten border with Canada/Mexico

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 4/8/2005, 12:21 am

once again
huh?

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 4/8/2005, 12:25 am

shit i'm sorry, i'm talking about that minutemen project thing going on in AZ

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 4/8/2005, 12:35 am

what is minute man

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 4/8/2005, 12:37 am

vigilante

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 4/8/2005, 12:43 am

http://www.minutemanproject.com/

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 4/8/2005, 12:44 am

*googled it*
*gets it now*

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 4/8/2005, 1:32 am

Reno needs to learn that not everyone lives down in the south.

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 4/8/2005, 4:38 am

Future generations will inherit a tangle of rancorous, unassimilated, squabbling cultures with no common bond to hold them together, and a certain guarantee of the death of this nation as a harmonious "melting pot."

i think im gonna puke

oh and jim, a lot of those unmanned border-crossings are equipped with motion-sensor equipment and various other forms of surveillance equipment, etc to deter smuggling and such
its apparently easier to smuggle stuff in the dead of night over the great lakes then ti is to get over those border-patrols heh

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 4/8/2005, 3:36 pm

Minutemen can bite me.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 4/8/2005, 8:06 pm

Agreed, Cass. There is entirely too much illegal immigration from Mexico to the US. Most of it comes from the miles and miles of unmanned border. If we are going to tighten our borders, let's start with what we aren't watching.

Someone agrees with me!? :cry:

I'm so happy!

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 4/9/2005, 3:23 am

it's really retarded, first of all the labor pool is shrinking, because baby boomers are dying/retiring. were going to need able bodies here pretty quick in order to keep this economy going. lettuce in cali isn't getting picked cause some fuckwad didn't want to allow the migrant workers from mexico to cross and work. i say fuck it, i don't eat that fucking shit anyhow.

they pay into social security, and whatever else gets docked from their pay, and they don't recieve the benifits that they're entitled to, since after all this country was founded on the principles of no taxation without representation. (TAKE THAT MINUTE FUCKS) i'm honestly suprised that american companies haven't yet exploited this little loophole to a wider extent yet. bring all illegals into the country, let them work, tax em, and let the government collect on the revenue, and only pay out to the real citizens. hell, i haven't even coved the states sales tax. without illegals working in TexAs, the godamn state would have a much harder time funding our schools without the sales tax that most illegals pay on everything. (goes to show we got shit for brains for a governor) a report from Dallas alone showed that 4 billion dollars was sent back to Mexico by illegals from the city. that's 4 billion that cleared all withholdings and was taxed, yet most illegals will not pursue anything more then letting their kids into a public school. and grated not every illegal has a bank account, or sends the money via wire transfer or money order (the report only measured those with bank accounts or did the money order thing), most just stuff money into an envelope everyday.

and what's wrong with teaching spanish in the classroom? by 2020, Hispanics will out number any other ethnicity in TexAs. it's funny, we got a saying to people who bitch about us speaking spanish, 'we didn't assimilate, we just learned english'. what can others say? we only know the one language thats required. ignorance, sheer ignorance. yeah, let's not allow all immigrants. well dumbasses, your about 220+ years late, the fucking natives should have put this plan into action a long time ago, last thing they needed was to teach early settlers how to take a godamn bath, or how to live off tha land. where were the gun happy jerkoffs on the eastern coast waiting to call the federales once someone's boat landed on plymoth?

them second sucks don't have the godamn balls to come into TexAs that's all i know. i'll personally take up arms against those bastards they ever come around here. let it never be said a TexAn laggen in a fight. and godammit, i need them Mexicanos over here right now to fund our public schools and keep medicare and social security alive while they never see the benefits of their taxes.

just to let y'all know, i'm drunk and angry. so sorry for the mistakes, and sorry for the offenses, least you know its the truth now,

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 4/9/2005, 5:16 am

im assuming you got that part of the rant about learning spanish from that minuteman site and if so, i agree.. otherwise that was random

as for the rest of it.. i fully agree
heres one way to look at it, (which reno alluded to)
most folks dont want to work in fields and pick crops by hand, the pay isnt great (essentially, if one were to work 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year doing that kinda labour they would barely be above the poverty line in terms of wages and such.. factor in the fact that work of that nature is physically taxing and as such, wouldnt allow for one to (theoretically) work all the time) and as he said, the crops have to be picked.. farmers complain that they cant afford to pay more so someone has to work. thanks to various trade agreements (such as NAFTA) and more importantly the GATT (general agreement on tariffs and trade that is run by the WTO to ensure that every country in the world is given a (relatively) fair and equal chance to succeed imposing tariffs or the use of subsidies to ensure that local grown crops are cheaper is illegal and the country doing it can be fined (as ruled by the WTO)... if you think thats unfair.. think about it this way, a farmer in china gets shit all for his work. the government owns it essentially. that produce could (without the GATT) be dumped on the world market for below cost prices to drive others out of business which would in turn (eventually) create a shortfall in that produce for a market which the chinese now control. the creation of GATT was put in place to ensure that doesnt happen.
in the beginning it will cause heartache but in the end it will result in a fair market for all.

yes that was a tangent, but its important to this discussion.. essentially, farmers have to lower costs and the best (in my opinion) method to do so is to allow a certain amount of "illegals" to work on those farms for a price that (when converted to their own currency) would allow them to make a decent wage, while being cheap for american farmers. the governments involvement in all of this would be to "police" the industry to ensure that these folks dont disappear basically.. the government cant directly (and more importantly legally without facing WTO sanctions) get involved in the industry fully so if they can provide the farmers with cheap workers in this manner they can ensure the industry stays alive and can better document the numbers of workers coming into the country and allow them to enter in a safe manner

Soozy · Post by **Soozy** » 4/9/2005, 8:06 am

J-Neli wrote:no. Now in the EU the borders are open. You only need a passport to enter into Europe, not to go from country to country (at least this is the case for the countries that are a part of the EU)

That's not true Jim.

I need a passport to get into any other European country except Ireland.

Some countries have national identity cards that you can use instead of a passport for entry to some, but definitely not all other countries.

Now for my rant about the stupid US border. I know it's nothing like what Sand and Raffia have to deal with, but still frustrating ...

I recently got a bus from Vancouver to Seattle and it took 2 hours to cross the border. First we spent an hour and 15 minutes on the coach waiting for the busses in front of us to be processed. Then when we finally got to go in there were two immigration guys on duty so we queue up to see them and those of us that aren't from the US or Canada need to fill out a green form. Now of course, we could have filled those out while we were waiting on the bus, but no, no-one bothers to give us one until we get in the building. So we fill out the forms and join another queue to get them processed. But there's not actually an immigration officer at the front of the queue so it just gets longer and longer. Then one of the 2 officers on duty decides it's time he goes for lunch, leaving one poor guy on his own. That guy gets so pissed off that he says he's not going to process any new coaches until he's sorted out the big queue for the green forms. However rather than starting at the front of the queue he starts with two old people who are on their way to Vegas. It turns out they haven't even attempted to fill out their form so he has to help them both do it, which takes ages. Then finally another immigration person appears to deal with the rest of us. Meanwhile me and the English guy behind me realise that the coach driver's disappeared and get scared he's going to leave without us. Finally we both get processed and they have the cheek to charge us $6 per person for it! Then they scan my suitcase and mistake the easter eggs I have in there for fruit so I have to unpack everything to show them!! Finally we get back on the bus and continue our fun journey.

Seriously it was a total shambles and if I ever do it again I'm going to fly as it'll be quicker and easier.

Korzic · Post by **Korzic** » 4/9/2005, 10:09 am

Been there done that Sooz. Although... I had more problems going from Detroit to Windsor than anywhere else. I had to get out of the bus at the Champlain crossing and at the RIchmond crossing where you went through the bus didnt even stop. It's all a bit of a schmozzle if you ask me.

However... it will only take 1 incident for half the population to flare up and say "Why weren't we doing that earlier?"

Soozy · Post by **Soozy** » 4/9/2005, 10:34 am

I've crossed the border lots of times before no problem. Though my only time on a bus rather than in a car or walking was going from the US to Canada (Detroit/Windsor) and that was amazingly easy. The immigration man came on the bus to check everyone's stuff, I went out to the little booth thing to get my passport stamped, it took 2 minutes, then I got back on the bus and off we went. none of this stupid unloading your luggage rubbish.

In slight mitigation, the Canadian immigration woman asked me way more stupid questions than the US man. The stupid thing is how variable it can be. Last time I went to Canada the man didn't ask me any questions at all. In fact I don't think he said a word to me, just stamped my passport and handed it back to me! This time I got asked where I was staying, where I was going afterwards, what I did for a living, the name of the friend I was staying with and how I knew her and probably other stuff that I can't remember.

Thankfully I've not yet ever had to admit to staying with/meeting up with people I only know from the internet.

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 4/9/2005, 10:56 am

Soozy wrote:
J-Neli wrote:no. Now in the EU the borders are open. You only need a passport to enter into Europe, not to go from country to country (at least this is the case for the countries that are a part of the EU)

That's not true Jim.

I need a passport to get into any other European country except Ireland.

Some countries have national identity cards that you can use instead of a passport for entry to some, but definitely not all other countries.

Could that be because you're coming from offshore to the mainland? I just ask because I discussed this issue of border crossings with a friend of mine in my class who is an exchange student from Germany and he said the borders were open and unguarded, so he could travel from Germany to France without having to talk to inspectors at the border.

---

oh and Sand, ya I know there are sensors and police who sit around and patrol the borders for anyone trying to cross at unmanned stations but apparently that is only on the American side. The Fifth Estate did a big thing on it that was on the CBC a few weeks ago. I don't remember the exact numbers though but I'll see if I can find them as to how many people cross to and fro at the unmanned crossings

Soozy · Post by **Soozy** » 4/9/2005, 11:15 am

J-Neli wrote:Could that be because you're coming from offshore to the mainland? I just ask because I discussed this issue of border crossings with a friend of mine in my class who is an exchange student from Germany and he said the borders were open and unguarded, so he could travel from Germany to France without having to talk to inspectors at the border.

I've crossed land borders in Europe before and I'm pretty sure I've always had to show my passport.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 4/9/2005, 12:08 pm

farmers complain that they cant afford to pay more so someone has to work. thanks to various trade agreements (such as NAFTA) and more importantly the GATT (general agreement on tariffs and trade that is run by the WTO to ensure that every country in the world is given a (relatively) fair and equal chance to succeed imposing tariffs or the use of subsidies to ensure that local grown crops are cheaper is illegal and the country doing it can be fined (as ruled by the WTO)..

Farmers and ranchers make nothing in the market. I think this is what you are saying, because we import MORE than we export, which is absolutely ridiculious. If we were self relient, then agricultural people would make plenty of money. I'm sorry, I have nothing against any country. But we should all strive for what is best for the country without IMPOSING (that doesn't include them feeling "left out") on other countries. Then we wouldn't have to hire illegals and people who worked for the farmers wouldn't be wallowing in the poverty level.

And Reno, no taxation without representation is for citizens, not illegal immigrants. Once they are citizens, that applies to them as much as to anyone else.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 4/9/2005, 1:05 pm

Dr. Hobo wrote:im assuming you got that part of the rant about learning spanish from that minuteman site and if so, i agree.. otherwise that was random

there's a book with that title or something like it written by an angry raza unida.

cass, anyone paying US taxes is entitled to US benefits. in the 1700's, y'all were paying english taxes and had no representation. a fight broke out and were not paying english taxes anymore are we? is that what is going to have to happen here?

xoNoDoubt69 · Post by **xoNoDoubt69** » 4/9/2005, 3:40 pm

i was at the county store today and took notice that effective last month there was yet another fee added to the passport fee. so now to get a brand new passport it's almost 100 dollars :uh: