When I grow up, im goin to SPAM University!

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 2/6/2005, 4:25 am

so i was looking at various headlines over at slashdot and i came across an article about U of Calgary and a couple of classes theyre introducing for students in the comp sci dept

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national ... 50205.html

basically the gist of the article is that theyre going to teach students how to write virii and a second class where they learn how to create spyware/email spammer programs

the whole point to this type of program is to be able to (essentially) reverse engineer the programs created to better fight the problems

i want someone elses take on this
so discuss

i'll eventually post my opinion when i can word it the way i want to

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 2/6/2005, 4:31 am

I think it's the worst idea ever. Ugh. Punk/drunk college kids knowing how to write virii? :neutral:

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 2/6/2005, 4:35 am

well
most of the time
when one is drunk and at a computer
they tend to not be able to actually like
.. well
write programs

i mean hell read thru some of the drunken posts on here and most drunk folks cant even type

Gimme_Shelter · Post by **Gimme_Shelter** » 2/6/2005, 4:49 am

bet you cant even tell that im always drunk due to my alcoholism

Lando · Post by **Lando** » 2/6/2005, 5:16 am

it's true, I've seen it, it's the alcoholism that causes his drunkness.

Xavier870 · Post by **Xavier870** » 2/6/2005, 2:31 pm

It's good and bad.

Obviously they have no way of guaranteeing that these kids aren't gonna go and use what they've learned for malicious purposes. We've actually talked about this program in class, and how our school is going to introducing it in the next 2 - 4 years.

I think that it is important, however, that people have a working understanding of how programmers / attackers / hackers think, so as to undo what they do before it does any widespread damage. What is often overlooked, is that this program also has some criminology and psych classes in it, to learn how criminals think.

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 2/7/2005, 12:48 am

i agree brent

some of the best firewalls, anti-viral software etc are written by guys who used to be hackers

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 2/7/2005, 12:55 am

Yeah... but I just don't see college students being responsible with this information. :uhh:

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 2/7/2005, 1:05 am

theres classes that are taught in schools during which you learn about the chemical make up of cocaine or some other such drug

in that class you dont strictly learn how to make the drug but based on the techniques learned in the class and the make up of the drug if you pay attention and have a fully functioning brain its not hard for one to figure out how to make the drug.

yet there isnt a rash of cocaine addicts running around campus (as far as i know.. im fairly sure one of my profs is on somethin tho :nod:

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 2/7/2005, 1:23 am

True. But you'd actually have to get (not to mention, BUY... which is tough for a poor college student

) the supplies to make cocaine. With this, it's just like... you get bored in your dorm, you can make a virus and spread it around the internet for kicks.

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 2/7/2005, 1:28 am

the supplies arent hard to come by from what i understand

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 2/7/2005, 11:58 am

Dr. Hobo wrote:there isnt a rash of cocaine addicts running around campus

That's cause you're not at Queens anymore :sugar:

Also, I thought about this and realized that criminology is taught to help catch criminals, and it's a necessary practice. Imagine how much advantage some sort of CSI has if they want to perpetrate an untraceable crime.... and yet the advantages clearly outweigh that.

Xavier870 · Post by **Xavier870** » 2/7/2005, 1:19 pm

nikki4982 wrote:Yeah... but I just don't see college students being responsible with this information.

I just found out today that we're learning C programming next semester, and one of our first projects will be to program a virus. Not every college student is your typical "lets blow shit up and get really fucking wasted" cliche kind of person that you see in Hollywood movies. There are some of us who will use what we learn responsibly. I obviously can't say the same for every one of my peers, but for the most part people know the difference between right and wrong. Think of how many people are out there that know how to program serious viruses. There are a lot. The IT industry is a booming industry that grows every year. The only people you see or hear about are the bad ones. The stereotypical German or Russian kid, sitting in his parents basement unsupervised with nothing better to do with his time. It is people like this that give a bad rep to college kids who have the knowledge and understanding to do such a thing.

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 2/7/2005, 5:15 pm

Xavier870 wrote: Not every college student is your typical "lets blow shit up and get really fucking wasted" cliche kind of person that you see in Hollywood movies.

But a lot are. Think otherwise? You're naive.

This course would put destructive power into the hands of whomever takes it. Whomever. There will be that kind of student taking it and learning these skills.

Xavier870 · Post by **Xavier870** » 2/7/2005, 5:30 pm

joe_canadian wrote:
Xavier870 wrote: Not every college student is your typical "lets blow shit up and get really fucking wasted" cliche kind of person that you see in Hollywood movies.

But a lot are. Think otherwise? You're naive.

This course would put destructive power into the hands of whomever takes it. Whomever. There will be that kind of student taking it and learning these skills.

The pros still outweigh the cons when it comes to whether or not the course should be offered. If the course isn't offered, the people who really wanna do damage are still going to learn how to do it, by other means. If the course isn't offered, the people who are genuinely taking it to prevent the assholes from doing any damage won't have the skills required to do so.

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 2/7/2005, 5:44 pm

How do you know?

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 2/7/2005, 5:59 pm

Xavier870 wrote:
joe_canadian wrote:
Xavier870 wrote: Not every college student is your typical "lets blow shit up and get really fucking wasted" cliche kind of person that you see in Hollywood movies.

But a lot are. Think otherwise? You're naive.

This course would put destructive power into the hands of whomever takes it. Whomever. There will be that kind of student taking it and learning these skills.

The pros still outweigh the cons when it comes to whether or not the course should be offered. If the course isn't offered, the people who really wanna do damage are still going to learn how to do it, by other means. If the course isn't offered, the people who are genuinely taking it to prevent the assholes from doing any damage won't have the skills required to do so.

If it's possible to learn how to do damage without a course, isn't it also possible to learn how to prevent it?

Xavier870 · Post by **Xavier870** » 2/7/2005, 6:03 pm

I suppose it is, but it's a very linear process doing it that way. When taught in schools, as I mentioned earlier, Criminology and Psychology classes are included.

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 2/7/2005, 10:21 pm

happeningfish wrote:
Dr. Hobo wrote:there isnt a rash of cocaine addicts running around campus

That's cause you're not at Queens anymore

you suck