Metallica Fans vs. Bob Rock

Flea21212 · Post by **Flea21212** » 1/19/2005, 9:26 am

An article from ultimate-guitar.com. I figure this is of intrest seeing as though he's producing OLP's next album, and Metallica fan's seem to share the view of some (but not all) OLP fans.

Several "longtime loyal" fans of Metallica have launched a petition to force a split between Metallica and producer Bob Rock on the grounds that his "contributions" to the group's songwriting/recording process are "quite wrong and have been getting worse as time goes on," reports Blabbermouth.net. An open letter to Metallica from the petitioners reads as follows:

"We, the longtime loyal fans and friends of Metallica and their music, would like to see a major change with the upcoming album. I know it will be a hard thing to do, but we feel it is time to sever your working relationship with Bob Rock.

"Don't get us wrong, some of us like a few (very few) contributions Bob Rock has made to Metallica. Unfortunately one thing we can all agree on is nothing has been the same since he joined the ranks as longtime Metallica producer. We are not criticizing Bob Rock on his technical skills as he has mastered his sound. We just feel that his contributions to help craft a Metallica song are quite wrong and have been getting worse as time goes on.

"From 'Kill 'em All' through '…and Justice For All', the albums are timeless and we can listen to them over and over. Although Bob Rock's first producing effort with Metallica, 'The Black Album', may have sold the most copies worldwide, it doesn't mean the album is the most musically pleasing. As much as we support Metallica, most of us listen to the first few albums much more. The songs were simple and overproduced.

"'Load' and 'Reload' were examples of not having any control. The music was all over the place and Bob Rock went with the same sound plan as he has done for all of Metallica's albums. We heard this sound yet again on the first disc of 'Garage Inc.' We have watched the videos of Bob Rock telling Metallica horrible suggestions in the studios while we cringe knowing it is the wrong decision. Keep in mind, Bob Rock was in a band or two himself when he was younger. The reason no one knows this is because his bands failed because he cannot craft a good song let alone a help craft a good Metallica song.

"Then we are left with 'St. Anger'. It is completely unlistenable and this is the album that Bob Rock had most of his influence. Not only in production but the songs are all a mess as well. Every song could be cut down by about 3-5 minutes simply by cutting out most of the repetition. Bob Rock didn't realize that repetition of one riff over and over for 10 minutes doesn't make a song a pleasingly structured song. The sound, as everyone can agree, did not break any musical barriers, it just made the album worse. Even Bob Rock can do better than this.

"We understand and appreciate the time and effort Bob Rock has put into Metallica. By your own admission, you state Metallica is a hard band to work with. We appreciate him being there to keep the band together at a personal low point of their career to help them carry on as a four-piece. But we feel the day has come.

"We are excited to hear the next studio album with the addition of masterful bassist Robert Trujillo. We hope it breathes new songwriting life into the band. All we ask is you take our suggestion seriously for the sake of the band and your fans. Please end your working relationship with Bob Rock as producer and let's enter into a new phase for Metallica."

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/gen ... llica.html

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 1/19/2005, 10:31 am

It's the band's decision, and they shouldn't listen to one thing any of the fans say. Its their lives and careers, let them do what they want, if you don't support it then go listen to another band. Plain and simple.

Post by **faninor** » 1/19/2005, 10:44 am

I think it's silly for them to imagine that Metallica is still the same band they were way back then . . . they work with Bob Rock because they want to.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 1/19/2005, 2:51 pm

I agree with their cause, but they're just being whiney morons. Find some good metal bands and quit your bitching.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 1/19/2005, 3:03 pm

A better idea would be "music fans vs Bob Rock" - getting him to stop producing all together.

Random Name · Post by **Random Name** » 1/19/2005, 3:10 pm

Someone definately has to make that petition.
Maybe we could take legal action....
:lol:

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 1/19/2005, 3:15 pm

wow, people need to get a life. What gives them the right to interfear with the band like that?

Random Name · Post by **Random Name** » 1/19/2005, 3:21 pm

Johnny, we have a emoticon called : gravity : that is someone beating a dead horse.
Are you sure that the CM is really the place to preach that fan's should stay out of a band's business?

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 1/19/2005, 3:26 pm

I think you should stay out of my business! :mad:

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 1/19/2005, 4:27 pm

*doesn't stay out of Rob's business*

Tattooed Angels · Post by **Tattooed Angels** » 1/19/2005, 5:06 pm

I am not takin sides here, but this has been on going for the longest times. The earlier Metallica fans hate anything they did with Bob becasue he brought them to the MASSES..

I have to say that there were a few Metallica CD's I didn;t care for, but I feel that way about alot of bands( and BOB didn't produce them)..

When Gravity first came out I saw the same thing among OLP's long time fans, and even some newer ones. Also I think alot of fans blame Bob's infuence on the band for the reason Mike Turner left. We will never know what the real story is..

Love him or hate him. BOb did something with OLP that they needed.. He got them out there to the masses.. I know alot of you don;t want that, but let's be real. You become a musican to get your music heard. AM I right?I know there are alor of musicans on here.. If you didn't want your stuff heard why make an Album in the first place..

As for Metallica. Well they be around forever.. Over 20 years now. Oh course your direction is going to change as you get older.. you can;t be a 20+ year old kid forever...

I know a better pettion to sign. The one getting rid of ASHLEE SIMPSON.. I read it in the paper today. there were over 65thousand sigs .. OH My.. it was started by a an 18 year old NY'er

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 1/19/2005, 7:45 pm

*runs away*

Furious George · Post by **Furious George** » 1/20/2005, 12:46 am

I'd have to partially disagree with Gail's statement. While I'm not going to badmouth Bob Rock (it's the band's decision afterall) I think Clumsy was more successful at "bringing OLP to the masses" than Gravity ever was. Catching the interest of the mainstream crowd is only half of the equation, the other half is to establish long term fans of those same people that you've just hooked in. The way I see it is that Superman's Dead was both an incredibly creative and technical achievement and at the same time also something that was instantly catchy and accessible to many people. Once you've gotten people hooked onto your song, the only way to get them to regard your band as anything but a one-hit wonder is to show them how deep your music really is. I think that's what made Clumsy such an outstanding achievement in the band's career... I tend to think that the greatest bands are the ones that never sacrifice their own creativity and interests (something which I have to give OLP praise to) and at the same time try to make the music relate and be as accessible to as many people as they can.

Hope · Post by **Hope** » 1/20/2005, 12:48 am

yeah. why not make a good album and then get known to the masses?

good album that becomes famous > bad album that becomes famous

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 1/20/2005, 1:05 am

Vertigo wrote:I am not takin sides here, but this has been on going for the longest times. The earlier Metallica fans hate anything they did with Bob becasue he brought them to the MASSES..

I have to say that there were a few Metallica CD's I didn;t care for, but I feel that way about alot of bands( and BOB didn't produce them)..

When Gravity first came out I saw the same thing among OLP's long time fans, and even some newer ones. Also I think alot of fans blame Bob's infuence on the band for the reason Mike Turner left. We will never know what the real story is..

Love him or hate him. BOb did something with OLP that they needed.. He got them out there to the masses.. I know alot of you don;t want that, but let's be real. You become a musican to get your music heard. AM I right?I know there are alor of musicans on here.. If you didn't want your stuff heard why make an Album in the first place..

As for Metallica. Well they be around forever.. Over 20 years now. Oh course your direction is going to change as you get older.. you can;t be a 20+ year old kid forever...

I know a better pettion to sign. The one getting rid of ASHLEE SIMPSON.. I read it in the paper today. there were over 65thousand sigs .. OH My.. it was started by a an 18 year old NY'er

They are already out to the masses in Canada. The reason they started to loose them is because of the drastic changes they were making around happiness era. Not to say they shouldn't have, it is definatly a must. But right now in Canada there's a lot going on in the rock scene, and people are accepting of original stuff that before the masses might not have dug. I think they didn't need to simplifiy anything to continue in Canada, they just needed a revitalization. Gravity was a quick boost to OLP's career in Canada, but ultimatly i think it may have been destructive to there future sucess, because the fans they won over with Gravity, to be honest probably don't have as much intrest in old olp, nor new olp if they change again.

OLP are not an unknown band that need to break out. They're a band that needs to come out with something new and musically superior to bring back the old fans and make new long-time ones. Because to be honest there's a lot of people that would love OLP but they're turned off by it's continuing "generic", "SWOT" image, and don't see the other things going on, they do't take them seriously anymore. OLP is stuck in a musical limbo. They just can't pull off the commerical and pop success that some other bands can, but they also arn't groudbreaking or intelectual enough anymore to draw on the more hard-core (elitist asshole...Ex Me) crowd. So they're stuck depending on odd hit singles for life support.

Anyways, this is all assuming that simplifing has been their choice, maybe it is just a natural progression, which you can't blame them for. They're still one of the better bands in North America, and the world...they're just not a contender for best anymore.

Anyways these are just my thoughts, don't take this as an attack i'm actually holding out hope, and looking forward to the new album, maybe they're even take a risk witha single like they used to which is whatthey need to do i think, the worst that could happen is it could flop like "Made of Steal" did, and they can just release a safe one after.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 1/20/2005, 1:08 am

it's funny because a friend of mine went to a metallica concert in the fall and she said they played all the good old stuff.

and then they played one song off of st. anger and everyone was like whatever. :lol:

Hope · Post by **Hope** » 1/20/2005, 1:11 am

^^ sean stole my thoughts. exactly what he said. :nod:

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 1/20/2005, 1:13 am

Flea21212 · Post by **Flea21212** » 1/20/2005, 1:30 pm

I AM ME wrote:
Vertigo wrote:I am not takin sides here, but this has been on going for the longest times. The earlier Metallica fans hate anything they did with Bob becasue he brought them to the MASSES..

I have to say that there were a few Metallica CD's I didn;t care for, but I feel that way about alot of bands( and BOB didn't produce them)..

When Gravity first came out I saw the same thing among OLP's long time fans, and even some newer ones. Also I think alot of fans blame Bob's infuence on the band for the reason Mike Turner left. We will never know what the real story is..

Love him or hate him. BOb did something with OLP that they needed.. He got them out there to the masses.. I know alot of you don;t want that, but let's be real. You become a musican to get your music heard. AM I right?I know there are alor of musicans on here.. If you didn't want your stuff heard why make an Album in the first place..

As for Metallica. Well they be around forever.. Over 20 years now. Oh course your direction is going to change as you get older.. you can;t be a 20+ year old kid forever...

I know a better pettion to sign. The one getting rid of ASHLEE SIMPSON.. I read it in the paper today. there were over 65thousand sigs .. OH My.. it was started by a an 18 year old NY'er

They are already out to the masses in Canada. The reason they started to loose them is because of the drastic changes they were making around happiness era. Not to say they shouldn't have, it is definatly a must. But right now in Canada there's a lot going on in the rock scene, and people are accepting of original stuff that before the masses might not have dug. I think they didn't need to simplifiy anything to continue in Canada, they just needed a revitalization. Gravity was a quick boost to OLP's career in Canada, but ultimatly i think it may have been destructive to there future sucess, because the fans they won over with Gravity, to be honest probably don't have as much intrest in old olp, nor new olp if they change again.

OLP are not an unknown band that need to break out. They're a band that needs to come out with something new and musically superior to bring back the old fans and make new long-time ones. Because to be honest there's a lot of people that would love OLP but they're turned off by it's continuing "generic", "SWOT" image, and don't see the other things going on, they do't take them seriously anymore. OLP is stuck in a musical limbo. They just can't pull off the commerical and pop success that some other bands can, but they also arn't groudbreaking or intelectual enough anymore to draw on the more hard-core (elitist asshole...Ex Me) crowd. So they're stuck depending on odd hit singles for life support.

Anyways, this is all assuming that simplifing has been their choice, maybe it is just a natural progression, which you can't blame them for. They're still one of the better bands in North America, and the world...they're just not a contender for best anymore.

Anyways these are just my thoughts, don't take this as an attack i'm actually holding out hope, and looking forward to the new album, maybe they're even take a risk witha single like they used to which is whatthey need to do i think, the worst that could happen is it could flop like "Made of Steal" did, and they can just release a safe one after.

Not to get to far off topic here, but "Made of Steel" is quite possibly the worst choice OLP could have made for a single. IMO, it's the worst track on Gravity, OLP themselves said they had to constantly go back and retweak the song to get it right (so maybe the fact that they had more time invested in the song lead to the decision). I mean after releasing SWOT, and Innocent, you want a rocking song, which I believe "All For You" or "Do You Like It" would have been a hundred times better. Almost everyone I played Gravity for said those two songs stuck out the most. Now if I'm OLP I want to get another song on the radio that will recieve air play, which "Do You Like it" would have easily gotten. What suprises me even more is, they didn't play "Made of Steel" on a regular basis in concert. Now if you're a band and you have a single out wouldn't you play it at your live shows? It just seems to make sense. However, I think OLP's managment for some reason decided to release this song, and to this day it still puzzles me why.

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 1/20/2005, 3:18 pm

actually that brings up another point, OLP haven't released a rock single since clumsy era, with exception of maybe OMA. Really they're seriously killed off a lot of the male listenership and rock listenership. OLP back then was probably primarily a guy and rock band. Now they have more female pop fans