Michael Moore's first response to the election.

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Michael Moore's first response to the election.

Post by Korzic »

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

Now most people know I hate MM. And he is a very debatable character. People will defend him and shower him in vitriol long after the day he dies and we could go on for an eternity. So in the sake of fairness I'll take a pro-MM view and an Anti MM view and give my over all opinion at the end.

His response. (in the interests of keeping this readable)

Michael Moore wrote:Out of date list of soldiers killed in Iraq

May they rest in peace.

And may they forgive us someday.


Pro-MM view.

I believe he supports the troops and that that he would have much rather they never gotten in harm's way. Hence why he is against sending them to Iraq. I recognize that a pull-out would be disastrous in the geo-political sense, while redeeming in the moral "Don't send them to die" sense. That man went all around the country to reach out to young voters. He came to university campuses and spoke to the kids there about getting out to vote. He could just easily sit his fat ass at home eating twinkies enjoying the benefits of his film success and cozying up to Bruce Springsteen. But he wasn't doing that. He was hauling ass and doing everything in his power, even telling people they could download his movie for free, just to get Bush out of office. I also think he would resort to exploitation if it meant no more of these kids had to die. I know it's hard to believe but there are people out there that don't want to go to war and destroy families abroad and at home. You don't have to agree with him but don't ever think that he believes in his mission any less than Bush believes in his. I honestly believe that he just wants people to think about the human costs of the war in Iraq and Bush's policies.

Anti MM View.

He's exploiting the deaths of those soldiers for political gain, nothing more. If he even cared about them how hard would it have been to find an up to date list of those killed rather than a simple cut and paste of tsomething that's been sitting on his HDD for the past few months. I don't doubt that he believes in his mission, but there's no way he gives a rat's ass about anyone in Iraq. Moore's modus operandi is using incredible selectivity and cynical emotional manipulation to promote his agenda. One only needs to look at the one-sided and inaccurate Canadian segment of 'Bowling for Columbine' to see that. One-sided since he didn't cover the downsides of socialized health care, such as splints that fall apart the day after a hospital visit, or sitting in the emergency room for 17 hours with a life-threatening condition. Or how he didn't cover why it is so many rich Canadians go to the US for treatment. One can only speculate as to why the Canadian health care system is relevant to US gun control issues.

Further, the whole "nobody locks their doors" segment was utterly ridiculous. As a Canadian, I know this is completely untrue of the country at large. I don't know how many hundreds or thousands of doors he had to try before he found the 3 or 4 unlocked ones in BFC, but implying those people are representative of the country at large is inutterably dishonest.

Would such a man really give a shit if some young people got blown the fuck up in Iraq? Undoubtedly not. If anything, he's gleeful because it gives him ammo for his cause.

My opinion
Michael Moore doesn't have ulterior motives; that would imply that he's trying to hide something. Michael Moore is very open about his positions: he very obviously opposes Bush, supports Kerry and other Democrats, (and Nader in 2000). His motives are clear: The Left is good and The Right is bad - and he's using dead American soldiers to drive this point home. When you cross this line, the subject of your message takes a backseat to your agenda.

In other words, Michael Moore's agenda is more important to him than the fallen soldiers. His agenda is so important, in fact, that he's willing to use dead soldiers to further his career. It's not really an innocent thing to do or even an accident. It's blatant and it's disgusting.

Thank you for listening.
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Post by starseed_10 »

The only age group in which the majority voted for Kerry was young adults (Kerry: 54%, Bush: 44%), proving once again that your parents are always wrong and you should never listen to them.


:lol: :lol:
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Post by Korzic »

I can tell I'm going to be hijacked by his 17 points on why not to be sad. And yes I agree with some of them. Especially Barbara. (I think thats the hot one... I get confused easily)
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Post by nelison »

Personally I think it was a a very powerful letter. I'm on his mailing list so I do get his letters regularly, and if there was one letter that felt more honest than any other, it was this one. I don't see it as him using the death of others to further his career, and if in fact that was the motive, it would be no different than Bush's use of 9/11 and terrorism as a means for his agenda and re-election.

I mean, honestly, I have yet to hear anyone talk about the soldiers who died in Iraq. Moore is just saying what the media won't. It's a powerful message to go through over 1000 names on a scroll, and realize that does deaths occured because of one man.

I'm not a huge pro-Moore fan. I think he does a good job doing what he does though. He is already insanely popular, so I don't see how this could be merely a ploy to further his career.
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Post by closeyoureyes »

Oi! I'm canadian, and we never lock the door! Maybe at nightime, but not when people are awake.
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Post by Korzic »

I would have believed it... had it not been for the fact it was out of date and thus incomplete. This fact alone makes me think that the list has been sitting on his HDD for quite sometime with him just looking for an excuse to use it.
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Post by namkablam »

I don't even know what a lock is or how one using a lock.
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Post by closeyoureyes »

Thats cause you're canadian nam :) ;)
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Post by nelison »

Korzic wrote:I would have believed it... had it not been for the fact it was out of date and thus incomplete. This fact alone makes me think that the list has been sitting on his HDD for quite sometime with him just looking for an excuse to use it.


Well I mean he very well might have wanted to use the list at some point. It doesn't make it wrong, and I'm willing to bet his motives for keeping the list involved in some way using it if Bush did win the elction.

I just think that considering Moore's past and his willingness to stand up for the little guy, it seems odd that he'd be taking advantage of death to further himself. maybe I'm wrong, but neither of us know the man or know his ambitions.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.

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Post by Korzic »

Well I mean he very well might have wanted to use the list at some point. It doesn't make it wrong, and I'm willing to bet his motives for keeping the list involved in some way using it if Bush did win the elction.


That's what my core problem is. He's pushing his own barrow again and when you push your barrow, especially the barrow that MM has, then it is an attempt to further your career whether you intend it that way or not. so I'll quote myself again

When you cross this line, the subject of your message takes a backseat to your agenda.

In other words, Michael Moore's agenda is more important to him than the fallen soldiers. His agenda is so important, in fact, that he's willing to use dead soldiers to further his career. It's not really an innocent thing to do or even an accident. It's blatant and it's disgusting.
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Post by Random Name »

I know for a fact that I could walk into many, many homes right now because they don't lock their doors. There is just no reason to. Even people who have security systems in their houses, I could walk into.

To that extent I think his point was valid. I'm sure though that in the Canada that consists of three cities, this would not be so. (Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver). But whatever.

I really don't think he was trying to exploit the fallen soilders in any way. Maybe making a point, yes. But I can't even fathom how he intends to use this to further his career. We already know that soilders were killed, and so were innocent people. How is recognition exploition?
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Post by nikki4982 »

I think that was a great reaction to Bush winning, personally. I know the war and all the deaths are my biggest issue with Bush and the main reason I'm so pissed off he won.

Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the birthplace of our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And the whole West Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that's a start. We've got most of the fresh water, all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can dehydrate them or bury them in lava. And no more show tunes!

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Post by Corey »

So you leave your doors unlocked.... when you are home... during the daytime... and don't live in a major city....

Sorry, but that isn't unique to Canada.
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Post by faninor »

Yep, I do that all the time in the US.
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Post by Random Name »

Yes, but compare the population of the US to Canada. And the number of big cities in Canada to the number of big citites in the States. If you took all the atlantic provinces combined, they probably wouldn't add up to population of a small city in the States! And that's 40% of all the provinces in Canada. Thats the difference.
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Post by Corey »

So... you are saying that people feel safer in Canada, not because the people are nicer.. but because the cities are smaller? ... hmm sounds like what I've been saying all along.
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Post by nikki4982 »

The thought of leaving my doors unlocked ever is so scary to me. :lol:
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<font color="#3C8C8B">Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try, no hell below us,
above us only sky, imagine all the people, <font color="#FFFFFF">living</font> for today...</font>

<font color="#50B4B3">Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do, nothing to kill or die
for, no religion too, imagine all the people, living <font color="#FFFFFF">life</font> in peace...</font>

<font color="#89CDCC">Imagine no possesions, I wonder if you can, no need for greed or <font color="#FFFFFF">hunger</font>,
a brotherhood of man, imagine all the people, sharing all the <font color="#FFFFFF">world</font>...</font>

<font color="#B1DFDE">You may say I'm a <font color="#FFFFFF">dreamer</font>, but I'm not the only one, I hope
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Post by Soozy »

And me. Even at my Dad's house in the country we'd never do it.
Open your eyes to nights and days, you close them up and float away
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.


And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
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Post by xoNoDoubt69 »

:nod: the town i grew up in was extremly small. only bout 12 streets or so and we ALWAYS locked our doors. i could never imagine not locking my doors.
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Post by xjsb125 »

When I lived in Abingdon, I left my doors unlocked when I was at home (even while I was asleep.) I only locked them when I went to work or out to do something.
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