OK, I need to respond to this.
First I need to say that if Sean got his point from where I think he did that the person who said it originally, in my experience, has a slightly rose tinted view of the UK! Having said that, while there is a growing gun problem in this country, it is still nowhere near the level of the problem in the US.
The first story on that link you have to the guardian talks about a boy who shot his parents. Initial reports were that he'd shot them, but it turned out they'd actually been stabbed: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 636576.stm
The overwhelming majority of other shootings in this country are gang related or to do with problems between people involved in organised crime. I can only think of 2 instances in my whole lifetime (27 years) of crazy people getting hold of guns and going on random killing sprees. One was the Dunblane massacre which you mention, the other was the Hungerford massacre back in 1987.
To say that "a horrific crimewave" has taken place since the post-Dunblane firearms crackdown is just misleading. Where are the figures for the comparative crime rates pre and post this crackdown? It say that assault and burglary rates are 100% higher than in the US, but I don't see what this has to do with the guns issue.
Personally, I have absolutely no fear of gun violence at all. I can walk around London at night and not worry. I don't know of anyone who owns a gun, there's just no need. And I'm really glad that things are like this. I really feel uncomfortable when I go to other countries and see the police with guns. It doesn't make me feel safer at all, in fact it makes me more scared.
Right to bear...AK-47s?
by nelison » 9/15/2004, 11:23 am
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
-
nelison - Oskar Lifetime Achievement Award: 2006
- Posts: 5660
- Joined: 3/16/2002, 9:37 pm
by Rusty » 9/15/2004, 7:45 pm
Queens Of The Stone Age-Someone's In The Wolf
Once you're lost in twillights's blue
You don't find your way, the way finds you...
Tempt the fates, beware the smile
It hides all the teeth, my dear,
What's behind them...
So glad you could stay
Forever
He steps between the trees, a crooked man
There's blood on the blade
Don't take his hand
You warm by the firelight, in twilight's blue
Shadows creep & dance the walls
He's creeping too..
So glad you could stay
Forever
<----------------- click and listen!
-
Rusty - Oskar Winner: 2006
- Posts: 14905
- Joined: 11/25/2003, 7:58 pm
- Location: Ontario
by Bandalero » 9/15/2004, 8:43 pm
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
-
Bandalero - Posts: 6219
- Joined: 5/23/2002, 11:25 pm
- Location: South Texas
by Rusty » 9/15/2004, 8:50 pm
Queens Of The Stone Age-Someone's In The Wolf
Once you're lost in twillights's blue
You don't find your way, the way finds you...
Tempt the fates, beware the smile
It hides all the teeth, my dear,
What's behind them...
So glad you could stay
Forever
He steps between the trees, a crooked man
There's blood on the blade
Don't take his hand
You warm by the firelight, in twilight's blue
Shadows creep & dance the walls
He's creeping too..
So glad you could stay
Forever
<----------------- click and listen!
-
Rusty - Oskar Winner: 2006
- Posts: 14905
- Joined: 11/25/2003, 7:58 pm
- Location: Ontario
by nelison » 9/15/2004, 11:11 pm
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
-
nelison - Oskar Lifetime Achievement Award: 2006
- Posts: 5660
- Joined: 3/16/2002, 9:37 pm
by I AM ME » 9/16/2004, 1:33 am
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
-
I AM ME - Posts: 5956
- Joined: 3/13/2002, 9:09 am
- Location: Manitoba
by I AM ME » 9/16/2004, 1:38 am
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
-
I AM ME - Posts: 5956
- Joined: 3/13/2002, 9:09 am
- Location: Manitoba
by Soozy » 9/16/2004, 1:06 pm
Open your eyes to nights and days, you close them up and float away
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
-
Soozy - Oskar Winner: 2007
- Posts: 7633
- Joined: 10/16/2002, 12:07 pm
- Location: England
by stlloki » 9/16/2004, 1:25 pm
And I hope you didn't think I was saying anything disparaging about England. That wasn't my intent. I was just merely pointing out that even though a gun law was passed, that didn't stop the criminals. And IMO, the laws should be directed more at punishing/eliminating criminals than at the tools that they can and will use no matter what law is passed.
- stlloki
- Posts: 329
- Joined: 3/14/2002, 9:43 am
by Soozy » 9/16/2004, 2:19 pm
I just wanted to point out that it's not as bad as you were making out. But you're right, it doesn't stop hardened criminals who will always find ways to get their hands on them, or non-gun-related crime. As a general citizen I have no fear of gun crime, whereas I don't think that would be the case if I lived in the States. Less guns just randomly "lying around" (for want of a better term, I know they're usually locked up and stuff) means less chance for them to be used against ordinary people.
Open your eyes to nights and days, you close them up and float away
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
and somehow inbetween you've got to master lying to yourself
you back the cause, get out of school, you get a job, the job gets you
and somehow every day you end up serving somebody else
now if that ain't panic that you're feeling, then you damn well better start
you can drive it into that head of yours with the hammer in your heart.
And it's alriiiiiiiight now, take the world and make it yours again.
-
Soozy - Oskar Winner: 2007
- Posts: 7633
- Joined: 10/16/2002, 12:07 pm
- Location: England
by Bandalero » 9/16/2004, 4:17 pm
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
-
Bandalero - Posts: 6219
- Joined: 5/23/2002, 11:25 pm
- Location: South Texas
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