Peaceful protest is a very important right.
Burt violent protests piss me off, half the time it's just idiots joining in to trash stuff, and it wrecks the whole point trying to be proven.
so to re-iterate, Violent Protestors are ass-clowns
RNC
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
you know what i don't understand, i don't understand people calling anyone a flip-flopper. i hear this dribble/term from all the media outlets when they describe kerry. and to be honest yes, he kind of is.
but you see here lies the problem, these godamn political parties. your either a republican or a democrat. there's no real inbetween, because nader is a glorified lobbiest. so you have to choose one of the two.
has it ever crossed anyones fucking mind that maybe, just fucking maybe, i'm conservative about a few things, and liberal about other things? why the hell am i labeled a democrat becuse i vote for mostly democrats? there's still so many things i do not agree with democrats on with, yet when i go to the polling place, they stamp my voter registration card as democrat.
this 2 party system creates mindless zombies that, for no more reason then the voting patterns of their parents, base their own voting policies. why is that the case? you have seen these individuals all over the place, surely you must have bumped into one or two in your life. who are you voting for? democrat, because my dad was a democrat. no other real life basis is considered by the mindless zombie. fuck the economy, fuck the wars, fuck welfare/social care systems, fuck it all, i vote because my parents voted the same way. that is rather ignorant and just plain arrogant on that individuals part.
here is what i propose, and this is something that when i do run for office, i will stress so damn much. i propose running on the premise that i think this way, it's a little slanted to the left, however i am not a full fledged liberal. i'm conservative on some issues and liberal on others, and in the case of abortion, i just don't give a damn, i will do what ever the majority in my district requests or wants. now i emplore anyone, ANYONE, who may have a different view on even just ONE issue to join me in my quest to completely phase out the 2 party system that creates a void in thought about issues. instead of those blindly in following party beliefs, i want a rag tag, loose assembly of people who may/maynot think alike on several issues, but they do just that think. i want someone in this assembly to debate with me, try and pursuade me to reconsider my stance on a particular issue. the great thing about this little sceme of things is that it keeps people informed about issues, not just what the party wants you to do. and who knows, in the end if my view on an issue was wrong or not at all good for the people, then i would change my position. that is not a flip-flop. that's just good debate and intellegence from one person to another, that keeps the people in charge on their feets and well informed about current issues and events.
my ideal democratic republic (our current system of democracy) is going back to the basics, before jacksonian democracy, where the victor does not get the spoils but rather the people get the spoils of having canidates so precisely measured that if you suffer from being a complex person who feels conservative and liberal about a slew of issues, you have a canidate that feels exactly the same way, or closely resembles the way you feel.
call it a loose assembly, call it a political party, call it anything you please, it sure is alot better then having two stupid political conventions that adhere to what the party, lobbiest groups, and the big shits with all the money want.
but you see here lies the problem, these godamn political parties. your either a republican or a democrat. there's no real inbetween, because nader is a glorified lobbiest. so you have to choose one of the two.
has it ever crossed anyones fucking mind that maybe, just fucking maybe, i'm conservative about a few things, and liberal about other things? why the hell am i labeled a democrat becuse i vote for mostly democrats? there's still so many things i do not agree with democrats on with, yet when i go to the polling place, they stamp my voter registration card as democrat.
this 2 party system creates mindless zombies that, for no more reason then the voting patterns of their parents, base their own voting policies. why is that the case? you have seen these individuals all over the place, surely you must have bumped into one or two in your life. who are you voting for? democrat, because my dad was a democrat. no other real life basis is considered by the mindless zombie. fuck the economy, fuck the wars, fuck welfare/social care systems, fuck it all, i vote because my parents voted the same way. that is rather ignorant and just plain arrogant on that individuals part.
here is what i propose, and this is something that when i do run for office, i will stress so damn much. i propose running on the premise that i think this way, it's a little slanted to the left, however i am not a full fledged liberal. i'm conservative on some issues and liberal on others, and in the case of abortion, i just don't give a damn, i will do what ever the majority in my district requests or wants. now i emplore anyone, ANYONE, who may have a different view on even just ONE issue to join me in my quest to completely phase out the 2 party system that creates a void in thought about issues. instead of those blindly in following party beliefs, i want a rag tag, loose assembly of people who may/maynot think alike on several issues, but they do just that think. i want someone in this assembly to debate with me, try and pursuade me to reconsider my stance on a particular issue. the great thing about this little sceme of things is that it keeps people informed about issues, not just what the party wants you to do. and who knows, in the end if my view on an issue was wrong or not at all good for the people, then i would change my position. that is not a flip-flop. that's just good debate and intellegence from one person to another, that keeps the people in charge on their feets and well informed about current issues and events.
my ideal democratic republic (our current system of democracy) is going back to the basics, before jacksonian democracy, where the victor does not get the spoils but rather the people get the spoils of having canidates so precisely measured that if you suffer from being a complex person who feels conservative and liberal about a slew of issues, you have a canidate that feels exactly the same way, or closely resembles the way you feel.
call it a loose assembly, call it a political party, call it anything you please, it sure is alot better then having two stupid political conventions that adhere to what the party, lobbiest groups, and the big shits with all the money want.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
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Random Name
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Sine wrote:Korzic wrote:No most of them are bandwagon jumpers. 80% of people in a protest wont actually know more than what the media has splashed all over the front pages over the past week.
You dont know very much about it do you.. That was a gross generalization. Some people actually do care about the politics, and the quality of life they live in. You shouldn't say things like that without actual knowledge.
It's not a generalisation. Sure people care, that doesnt mean they understand whats going on though. I do have knowledge, because I tend to ask activists what theyre protesting about a lot. Most of them dont know, theyre there because its trendy to go against a certain policy or theme.
1stly. only 20% of the people who vote will actually decide who goes to government. In the 2 major party systems... 40% will vote for Republicans 40% will vote for democrats no matter what their policies are. Thats a given and it wont change. That leaves the remaining 20% who decide whos going to run the country.
2ndly. Accost 10 protesters in a protest and question them about what theyre protesting about and what should be done. If you get an indepth answer out of more than 3 of them rather than the vague... "oh I dont like his polices on BLAH. Do you know what his policy is?... uh... no?" Then stone the crows.
3rdly. In order to save time and money, its my opinion that elections should only be held in marginal seats with a swing of say 10% required. Because in all other seats, the drovers dog could win for any given party. Its the same all over the world.
So all in all... despite the whole YOUR VOTE COUNTS thing... In the end it doesnt really unless you're a swinging voter living in a marginal electorate.
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closeyoureyes
- Oskar Winner: 2006
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1. You dont even live in North America. You may well have asked people[but not every single person] why they were protesting in AUSTRALIA, but you didnt in North America. You cannot brand everyone with one stick.
2. Who do you think makes up the 40 and the 40? Voters. So yes, all votes count.
<i>If you get an indepth answer out of more than 3 of them rather than the vague... "oh I dont like his polices on BLAH. Do you know what his policy is?... uh... no?" </i>
I highly doubt that a person who doesnt actually know about what they're protesting would protest, because it's alot of time and effort, not to mention a backbone.
2. Who do you think makes up the 40 and the 40? Voters. So yes, all votes count.
<i>If you get an indepth answer out of more than 3 of them rather than the vague... "oh I dont like his polices on BLAH. Do you know what his policy is?... uh... no?" </i>
I highly doubt that a person who doesnt actually know about what they're protesting would protest, because it's alot of time and effort, not to mention a backbone.
sinead
Sine wrote:1. You dont even live in North America. You may well have asked people[but not every single person] why they were protesting in AUSTRALIA, but you didnt in North America. You cannot brand everyone with one stick.
2. Who do you think makes up the 40 and the 40? Voters. So yes, all votes count.
<i>If you get an indepth answer out of more than 3 of them rather than the vague... "oh I dont like his polices on BLAH. Do you know what his policy is?... uh... no?" </i>
I highly doubt that a person who doesnt actually know about what they're protesting would protest, because it's alot of time and effort, not to mention a backbone.
1. its the same all over the world. dont be naive
2. Uh yes they would they portest because theyre activist friend told them it would be a good idea. Theyre there because theyre a bandwagon jumper.
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closeyoureyes
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closeyoureyes
- Oskar Winner: 2006
- Posts: 4746
- Joined: 8/2/2003, 1:36 pm
. Michael Moore is brilliant. He's my hero 
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closeyoureyes
- Oskar Winner: 2006
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Sine wrote:<i>1. its the same all over the world. dont be naive </i>. So you've been all over the world? How am I being naive when I dont brand every protester the same?
I've been over a lot of it. Protesters are the same everywhere.
Also Michael Moore is a complete and utter fool. Don't make me start on him. www.bowlingfortruth.com
YES! political discussion finally lol
Reno, man, I agree with every last word you said. That's how politicians should be and if it were done that way I think we'd all be better off.
Now Korzic...
I think your generalization was pretty weak. First off, not everyone is able to understand politics at an in depth level. Just like some people don't understand math, or science. It doesn't mean they can't show an interest and express their feelings about what they do understand. To say that just because 7 out of 10 people can't form a complete answer (that satisfies you) to why they're there, they're just bandwagon jumpers looking for the next trend is pretty absurd. You really think that when over 20 million people around the world protested Bush's war last year in protests around the world, that 14 million of them were there because it was a fad?
Finally, we all agree that Moore's tactics are unfair, and have discussed them at length, including many other sites than the ones you've listed. There are two things though I will bring up for you to ponder, since it really isn't on topic. 1. Moore uses 3 sets of lawyers and fact checkers from various credited sources, including the New Yorker. How could so many people have missed so many lies? 2. If Moore has lied, why hasn't he been sued by the many groups/people who he has supposedly lied about?
Personally I think Moore is a great movie maker and at least is trying to educate the masses, or at least spark some sort of flame from wthin.
Reno, man, I agree with every last word you said. That's how politicians should be and if it were done that way I think we'd all be better off.
Now Korzic...
I think your generalization was pretty weak. First off, not everyone is able to understand politics at an in depth level. Just like some people don't understand math, or science. It doesn't mean they can't show an interest and express their feelings about what they do understand. To say that just because 7 out of 10 people can't form a complete answer (that satisfies you) to why they're there, they're just bandwagon jumpers looking for the next trend is pretty absurd. You really think that when over 20 million people around the world protested Bush's war last year in protests around the world, that 14 million of them were there because it was a fad?
Finally, we all agree that Moore's tactics are unfair, and have discussed them at length, including many other sites than the ones you've listed. There are two things though I will bring up for you to ponder, since it really isn't on topic. 1. Moore uses 3 sets of lawyers and fact checkers from various credited sources, including the New Yorker. How could so many people have missed so many lies? 2. If Moore has lied, why hasn't he been sued by the many groups/people who he has supposedly lied about?
Personally I think Moore is a great movie maker and at least is trying to educate the masses, or at least spark some sort of flame from wthin.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
i'm all about guerilla stype politics. run for office, talk to the masses where they assemble, instead of taking in money i'd take supplies, like paper, posters, printing services, ect. let them spend their money while i beat them by talking directly to the people and sparking the fire underneath their asses, and of course just out witting them and completely out debating them. the local officials can and will go down easily. that's how i would start it, state reps, then senators, then governors. then over time, US reps and senators, completely eradicating lobbiest groups along the way.
fuck man we need something, someone to get a tad radical and just scare the shit out of the suits and carrer politicians, so that they either A. get their shit straight, or B. just phase out.
fuck man we need something, someone to get a tad radical and just scare the shit out of the suits and carrer politicians, so that they either A. get their shit straight, or B. just phase out.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
J-Neli wrote:Now Korzic...
I think your generalization was pretty weak. First off, not everyone is able to understand politics at an in depth level. Just like some people don't understand math, or science. It doesn't mean they can't show an interest and express their feelings about what they do understand. To say that just because 7 out of 10 people can't form a complete answer (that satisfies you) to why they're there, they're just bandwagon jumpers looking for the next trend is pretty absurd. You really think that when over 20 million people around the world protested Bush's war last year in protests around the world, that 14 million of them were there because it was a fad?
It wouldn't surprise me. Politics is not like maths and science. However... If you were looking for an equivalent situation. I guess it would be a lot like Fermat's Last Theorm's proof. And you have 20 million people around the world disputing the fact its a proof. Chances are they won't understand 5% of it, but if everyone else is doing it, then it must be right. IMHO if you don't understand the background behind it, you shouldn't be involved in the protest. I say this because people yabbering on about things they don't know about seems stupid to me.
Finally, we all agree that Moore's tactics are unfair, and have discussed them at length, including many other sites than the ones you've listed. There are two things though I will bring up for you to ponder, since it really isn't on topic. 1. Moore uses 3 sets of lawyers and fact checkers from various credited sources, including the New Yorker. How could so many people have missed so many lies? 2. If Moore has lied, why hasn't he been sued by the many groups/people who he has supposedly lied about?
Personally I think Moore is a great movie maker and at least is trying to educate the masses, or at least spark some sort of flame from wthin.
Its called Freedom of Speech. He is not a great movie maker. He's a good propagandist. I wouldn't call them lies, I'll call them misrepresentations of the truth.
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closeyoureyes
- Oskar Winner: 2006
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Its not the blatent truth though? Its a misrepresentation of it. he leaves out bits and pieces of speeches and pastes them together to make it SEEM like something else was said. Thats not truth. Thats pure and vindictive manipulation.
Surely you can't tell me that Iraq was a nice peaceful and without fear under Saddams rule (see boy with kite scene) Thats just pure unmitigated crap
Surely you can't tell me that Iraq was a nice peaceful and without fear under Saddams rule (see boy with kite scene) Thats just pure unmitigated crap
Last edited by Korzic on 9/1/2004, 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
by the way, i always wondered, is Austrailia more liberal then America? Such as Canada, or is it mor ein line with America?
it's of intrest to me because i plan on taking a year of university there soon.
Oh do you guys have health care?
it's of intrest to me because i plan on taking a year of university there soon.
Oh do you guys have health care?
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
