Safe Injection Sites

[thirdhour]

And I honestly don't see how a safe injection site would help with any of that unless the users kick their habit.

Do you honestly not see how safe injection sites are a step in kicking their habit? They are starting to care about their well-being enough to get help, so maybe they will start thinking about how to get off drugs.

The sites are also about more than just drugs. They're help centers for anyone that needs help. If they're the one being abused, they can find crises centers and shelters, and if they are the ones abusing, they can find counselling and such. They can also look for ways to find employment or education that will lead to employment. Basically, everything they need to turn their lives around when they make the desicion to do so. Sites have already been in place in Europe for a while, and the results have shown drastic improvement.

In addition to health benefits, approximately 45 sites in a dozen cities in Europe and Australia are credited with limiting violence associated with drug use, reducing the public nuisance of people injecting on the street and the health risk of needles discarded in public places. source

It is their fault.

Users will sometimes be used to a specific purity of the drug that their body can handle, then without knowing it will receive a much stronger purity that will kill them. It's like (for lack of a better analogy) someone who goes cliff jumping without realizing there is rocks right underneath them. Sure, it was dumb, but it doesn't mean they deserved to die.

[asclumsyasyouvebeen]

yannic you're my girl!!! i'm glad you're addressing this problem. it's gotten soooo freakin huge it's unbelieveable!

as for the whole safe injection site thing, well... at first i was against it. maybe it was the aspect of them almost "pushing" drug use, or maybe it was the extreme media coverage the whole bloody idea was getting, but as i got to thinking about it, it started making sense to me. like clumsyboy said, these people are people too. we can't just sit back and watch them die. that's not right. these sites, while providing an appearance of providing drug users with reasons to continue with their habit, are actually a lot of help. think about it...

giving out condoms at school- is that going to promote sex?
having fire extinguishers- is that going to promote arsons?

it's the same thing really.

-melissa

[Axtech]

We aren't saying they deserve to die

If you shoot up and die from it, it's your own damn fault.

Problem is you quoted two different people.

My point (the second quote) was that people are taking risks when taking drugs, and they know that. Helping them do something that illegal just to make it safer is illogical and hypocratic.

[Venom]

I hate to say it but Axtech is right. Laws are in place for a reason. You cannot "bend" the law just to experiment with an extreme idea like this. These people know what the risks are and obviously don't care, why should taxpayers spend money to feed thier habit. I would much rather spend the money on putting them in jail. As for drug users with children....you take the children and find them a better home where they are gonna learn right from wrong and not follow in their self destructing parents footsteps.

Do you honestly not see how safe injection sites are a step in kicking their habit? They are starting to care about their well-being enough to get help, so maybe they will start thinking about how to get off drugs.

I dunno about Canada but in the US there are these things called detox clinics where drug users go where they kick the habit by NOT USING DRUGS! Cool concept huh? If these people really wanna kick the habit they go there, not some place that helps them take more drugs.

[thirdhour]

I dunno about Canada but in the US there are these things called detox clinics where drug users go where they kick the habit by NOT USING DRUGS! Cool concept huh? If these people really wanna kick the habit they go there, not some place that helps them take more drugs.

once again....

In Frankfurt, Germany, the rate of recovery for those using safe injection sites is more than four times higher than for North Americans using traditional treatment therapy source

[Axtech]

I hate to say it but Axtech is right.

[Venom]

Ok say someone is arrested for using drugs in their home. This person doesn't have a car and is outside of an area that has mass transportation. In court this person decides to use the defense that the government is supporting drug use in certain places, but he/she has no way to get to these places. He/she argues that the govenment isn't being fair. What gives one person the right to do drugs in one place but not another?

[I AM ME]

hate to give you a reality check Venom, but they government still won't be feeding their habit, the people will already have bought the drugs, and they would have with or without the clinic. All teh government is doing is making sure the drugs arn't going to get them killed even quicker then normal. If teh clinics don;t open the same people that woudl have used them are still going to be buying drugs, they'll just be using dirty needles

[Venom]

they're still supporting it!!

[Sufjan Stevens]

I am on Venom's side here. Honestly. Look at the situation. These junkies that need help are going into a building with heroin and cocaine in their pockets and shooting up in the building. And you're honestly telling me this is a good thing? In most cases, these people are living on the streets or in run down houses, and now we're going to coddle their addictions and give them clean needles to keep them alive? Has anyone here heard of natural selection? These people are weak and have problems, and this is how they're done away with. It sounds harsh, but it's the truth.

[happening fish]

So are you talking out of rationality here, Alan, or just out of anger against your druggy parents?

[Sufjan Stevens]

Wow, and I thought Jim was the only unbelievable piece of shit on the board. Why do you fucking assholes have such a knack for bringing up my parents? Wow, my parents snort coke, ha ha, don't fucking talk about it you stupid bitch.

No, it's not about my parents you cunt. It's the fact that these people are a drain on society and a problem. They started doing drugs, it's their problem. I shouldn't have to fucking spend my money catering to them and buying them needles. How about they fucking clean themselves up? Or how about they make an attempt to? No, all they do is be a drain on society, cause problems for everyone else, and beg for money to buy more drugs. Fuck them. They deserve what they get. I didn't make them do drugs, therefore, I shouldn't have to pay to make sure they life.

[happening fish]

It was an honest question, not an intended slight.

[I AM ME]

wow it's kinda sad how we are so predictable, we can predict ahead of time who's going to be on what side. Venom is obviously against anything non-traditional or conservitive. Alan is sometimes one the left side, but he tends to go on rages against me and alex, and lash out at canadians. I will go for almost anything traditionally left wing. Doug and Chris will remind us of how government = satan.

enters Doug and Chris to tell us that drugs should be legal, BUT it's not the governments problem to look after the public.

oh and i forgot to add Sean will also fuck up just about every post he makes with typos, and largely base his opinion on his morals, and refuse to provide any links, artices or sources

[Sufjan Stevens]

My God, it's not the fact Alex is a Canadian, it's the fact that she's a stupid cunt that insults me through my parents' addictions. Jesus Christ, if you had a retarded sister and I made fun of her, you'd get pissed off at me about it. It's the same thing here. You're such a moron for being too blind to see the obvious.

[I AM ME]

i'm a moron?


actually i was just posting something me and Yannic were talking about last night, it has nothing to do with you and alex's argument...........this would be one of those rages i was talking about

[Sufjan Stevens]

This is exactly why you're a moron. You're too blind to see why I am mad. Oh gee, someone takes a shot at me and brings up my parents' problems, and I am supposed to take it in stride. You really are slow.

[I AM ME]

i understand why your angry alan, i'm not some dumb insensitive person, bringing up your parents was a bad idea, and it was rude in a way. But i don't think alex meant it that way. But even if she did my post wasn't even talking about that, it was about how predictable we all are. I wouldn't try to belittle what it's like to have loved ones with problems, i have several ex-friends that are addicted to hard drugs which is why i feel for this topic. I also had to physically stop my friend from killing himself, in sveral diffrent manners, while i waited for the police to arrive. i know what it's like, and i would presume to slight you for it. But can we just cool down on me for a bit?

[I AM ME]

i understand why your angry alan, i'm not some dumb insensitive person, bringing up your parents was a bad idea, and it was rude in a way. But i don't think alex meant it that way. But even if she did my post wasn't even talking about that, it was about how predictable we all are. I wouldn't try to belittle what it's like to have loved ones with problems, i have several ex-friends that are addicted to hard drugs which is why i feel for this topic. I also had to physically stop my friend from killing himself, in sveral diffrent manners, while i waited for the police to arrive. i know what it's like, and i would presume to slight you for it. But can we just cool down on me for a bit?

[robcore]

Both sides are understandable. Obviously, something needs to be done. We can't sit idly by while watching people suffer, but we also shouldn't be feeding addictions and promoting illegal activity (which is exactly what the government is doing in this case). The only thing i can suggest is putting this money towards rehabilitation clinics. By allowing these clean clinics to exist, as much as they are helping people stay alive, they are also helping these people with their addictions (and helping them die). We need to help these people, but we shouldn't be aiding activity that is hurting themselves and society.

Yannic, i really hate to do this, but i'm going to have to disagree with you. You're right in wanting these people cared for, but i truly believe that it is being implemented in a hypocritical fashion.

Alan, i'm sorry to hear about your parents. I somewhat know what they're going through (pending on how long it's been), so i can clearly understand your feelings about the ordeal. I agree that that comment should have been left out of this conversation.

Guys, it all comes down to what's really going to help these people. By letting them do illegal things, what are we teaching the uneducated? If it's okay to do one illegal action, is it okay to do others? Is the consumption of illegal substances no longer illegal? This new program is only causing confusion, and will only benefit (but not in the long run, believe me) those who are looking for a high. Rehabilitation is the answer, not encouragement.