Remebering Hiroshima & Nagasaki

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 9/11/2003, 10:31 pm

Your first link just tells me these people wanted to see how much damage would be done by the bomb and that the cities were port cities. You know, port cities can be used to shipping goods in and out of the area for the people of Japan. And if this was such a strictly military area, as you're trying to pass it off as, why would so many civilians choose to live somewhere where they know their lives are in danger? San Francisco is by some water, does that mean it's a militarized city? No.

Your second link gives an opinion about the Japanese. All it says is they were tough to beat and would rather fight until death than surrender. Corey, you can do better than that site to support your cause. Maybe providing a site that actually defends what you say would help convince me to believe otherwise. Until you provide me with that site, I don't see myself choosing to not believe my American History textbooks. Sorry bud.

And the only thing that stands out on that website is that in Hiroshima alone, six months after the bomb was dropped on them, 140,000 people died from the blast or complications suffered from it. These are civillians, not people with guns or something, but innocent people.

Your second site even says this. Read the quote and tell me if the bomb was worth it.

"These people were citizens including students, soldiers and Koreans who worked in factories within the city. The radiation caused long-term problems to those who were affected by it. Even today some people die because of the radiation. Other problems were for example genetic problems. One of these genetic problems was that, women gave birth to malformed babies or they weren’t able to have children at all."

Just because some soldiers live in Hiroshima doesn't mean it's worthy of being bombed.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 9/12/2003, 5:41 am

yes, but the point of the essay is that, though horrible, the bombing was necessary. Did you happen to read the last link? Why no comments from that one?

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 9/12/2003, 10:29 am

I didn't read the last link, I read what pertained to me. I'll read it though.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 9/12/2003, 10:45 am

How hard is it to understand that innocents die in war. The Japanese would have never stopped unless we dropped the bomb. Yes it was horrible. More horrible than we thought it was gonna be. Now the world knows what one can do and there has never been another now has there?? GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS.......INNOCENTS DIE IN EVERY WAR. Pick another country that has killed civilians in war. Any country that has been to war has killed civilians. Make a thread about them why don't you. Always gotta go for the big fish right?? Thats how the little fish become bigger fish....they go undetected until its outta control. (ie Germany) The world doesn't like the fact that the US is the only military force in the world and so we get criticized for it. Jealousy, Jealousy, Jealousy. Why do you think the EU is trying so hard to become so large and unified?? They'll say and do anything to go against the US. They are trying to become more powerful. I'll save that for another thread.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 9/12/2003, 11:02 am

Corey brought this thread back from the dead to prove a point, so back off.

See, as much as I'd love to believe you that the Japanese would never have stopped if not for America dropping the atomic bombs on them, I'd rather believe the American History textbooks that were written, printed, and published in America that says otherwise. My entire life, my teachings about this situation have been that Japan tried to surrender, and we chose to ignore it and bomb them. Until someone can provide some literature that proves otherwise, other than a hokey website that is purely opinion based on the situation of surrender, I will believe what I've been taught my entire life.

doug · Post by **doug** » 9/12/2003, 2:31 pm

Venom: innocents die in wars, yes. Does the fact that it happens in every war make it right? Murders happen in countries! GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD! Etc etc etc… does that make murder ok? “it happens, get over it” is not a rational justification. You are not making an argument. You are just expressing your opinion.

Opinions are worthless.

Corey: the bomb was not necessary. The act of dropping it cannot be rationally justified. You cannot say “but they bombed pearl harbor” because I can say with confidence that 99% of those killed in Hiroshima had nothing to do with Pear Harbour. 140,000 lives were lost as a result of Hiroshima alone. It wasn’t fighting fair. In my mind a logical defence for dropping the bomb has never been made.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 9/12/2003, 2:38 pm

Rufus Wainwright wrote:See, as much as I'd love to believe you that the Japanese would never have stopped if not for America dropping the atomic bombs on them, I'd rather believe the American History textbooks that were written, printed, and published in America that says otherwise. My entire life, my teachings about this situation have been that Japan tried to surrender, and we chose to ignore it and bomb them. Until someone can provide some literature that proves otherwise, other than a hokey website that is purely opinion based on the situation of surrender, I will believe what I've been taught my entire life.

What class is this? Revisionist History 101?

thirdhour · Post by **thirdhour** » 9/12/2003, 2:44 pm

Rufus Wainwright wrote:^ Face it, no matter where we're from, our ancestors had to do some fucked up shit to get the land. Stlloki, ever hear of something called the Trail of Tears? I can tell you what that is, if you'd really like me to. Face it, we all had to kill people and force them off the land before we claimed it as ours, and that's just how shit happens.

i'm talking about residential schools dude, this was after we had taken over their land and forced them on reserves. this was just plain abuse to put them even more under the control of the govorment.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 9/12/2003, 2:45 pm

Actually, it was in my AP American History book. I took the class back in 2000-01. I am pretty sure I still have the book we used, if you want me to check it out and give you the quote, page number, and what edition the book is.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 9/15/2003, 12:37 am

let's see here, Truman repeatedly asks for nothing less then unconditional surrender, and the Japanese never really went to the US to surrender, but went to Russia instead. they're trying to keep their pride in tact by going through a middle man. and even then it did not meet the demands of the oposition....that is unconditional surrender. when your going to surrender, you have to come to terms with the country your surrendering to. many people in Japan itself though they had already lost the war, except the ruler of Japan. that's just pride, ego, and hardheadedness, on his part. Japan's army still had 4,000,000 strong. and to make things more interesting, the innocent civilians that you talk about so dearly were being taught to sharpen bamboo and to use as a weapon against the US. they were told that US troops would rape women and take men out to the middle of the sea and drown them. You don't think that stirs the bee hive alittle more?

It was either going to be a long fight, where every last man, woman and child foughtagainst the US, or it was going to be a scary but swift end, that eventually saved more lives then a tradional invasion.

ImAOneManArmy · Post by **ImAOneManArmy** » 9/15/2003, 1:03 am

well i know this was a terrible event....but....if america didnt attack the estimation for an invasion of japan would be more than a million lost on each side, plus japan back in the day was crazy....japan kicks ass now....they did worse things to the chinese then the nazis did to the jews....they had contest on who could cut the most chinese childrens head off in a 5 minutes, and they hung people by their tounges on hooks.... i mean my god!

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 9/15/2003, 3:39 pm

Doug you seem to think that you can have a war without losing lives or even that you can run the world war free. Why don't I see your name running for Prime Minister of Canada or for Secretary General of the UN? Why do you feel that instead of fighting an evil you should rather bend over and take it in the ass?? You think that no one should have stood up to the Nazi's and just let them kill everyone???? You think we should just let the terrorists fly planes into buildings whenever they want and just let it slide off our backs?? You get beat up a lot and have no self esteem don't you?! Just turn the other cheek right Doug? Why not just send a dozen fully fueled 767's to Bin Laden and give him a list of targets to hit?? You make no sense. Maybe you are a terrorist thats why you don't think the world should retaliate.....

Random Name · Post by **Random Name** » 9/15/2003, 3:49 pm

Venom wrote:You get beat up a lot and have no self esteem don't you?! Just turn the other cheek right Doug? Why not just send a dozen fully fueled 767's to Bin Laden and give him a list of targets to hit?? You make no sense. Maybe you are a terrorist thats why you don't think the world should retaliate.....

that was horrorifically unnecessary.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 9/15/2003, 4:03 pm

Yeah, it's shit like that which got him banned back in 2002.

Anyways, ImAOneManArmy, where is some proof that they would have contests to cut children's heads off? I'd like to read about that. I've never heard about them doing anything like that.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 9/16/2003, 2:10 pm

I wasn't a member here in '02 you schmuck. Its no wonder you believe the US is evil.

stlloki · Post by **stlloki** » 9/16/2003, 3:06 pm

Rufus Wainwright wrote:Yeah, it's shit like that which got him banned back in 2002.

Anyways, ImAOneManArmy, where is some proof that they would have contests to cut children's heads off? I'd like to read about that. I've never heard about them doing anything like that.

Just some reading material:

http://www.kimsoft.com/kr-japan.htm

The Japanese occupiers of the ancient city went on a rampage killing more than half of the citizens and raping some 20,000 women - some as old as 80 and as young as 4.
Shots of Japanese soldiers laughing while decapitating their victims. Bayonets were stuck into genitals of young rape victims. Infant girls too young for rape were split open and then raped anyway. These barbaric beastly acts went on unabated for several weeks.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 9/16/2003, 3:28 pm

The US is wrong no matter what the otherside is doing or has done.....at least in the eyes of Alan who obviously has no sense of politics or the world around him as a whole.

areusad831 · Post by **areusad831** » 9/16/2003, 7:26 pm

Venom wrote:I wasn't a member here in '02 you schmuck. Its no wonder you believe the US is evil.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 9/16/2003, 7:53 pm

My thoughts exactly.

On a side note... the DD sig :thumbs:

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 9/17/2003, 12:42 pm

wow, they were animals back then. Two bombs later, they're one of the more peaceful countries in the world.