In the vein of separation or church and state, I urge you all to read this. It's short, sweet, to the point, and completely right.
Theocracy, etc.
Theocracy, etc.
There's a big to-do going on down in Alabama about a monument in a courthouse displaying the 10 Commandments. It was taken down by order of the Supreme Court, but now there is a bill for the "Ten Commandments Defense Act" in congress that would protect such unconstitutional monuments.
In the vein of separation or church and state, I urge you all to read this. It's short, sweet, to the point, and completely right.
In the vein of separation or church and state, I urge you all to read this. It's short, sweet, to the point, and completely right.
quite true, i never can grasp how anyone can think Religon should be a part of American government
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
i agree, religion should be a private matter.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
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Sufjan Stevens
- Posts: 6738
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 12:25 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
It's a statue people. It had the 10 Commandments on it. Let's freak out. If it said something like "Burn all Jews because they're the scourge of the earth" then we should worry about it. But whatever though, it was just a statue, it wasn't religious propaghanda, so calm down.
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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Random Name
- Posts: 10134
- Joined: 8/16/2003, 2:57 pm
- Location: New Finland
I agree that religion, no matter how dominante, should have no part to any legal issue. I just don't see why a statue matters so much when there are much more important things to waste your time with. I don't see how a statue will affect anyone...I mean I don't exactally think it would be offecive, but then again I don't know all the facts.
-Sarah
Goodbye you liar,
Well you sipped from the cup but you don't own up to anything
Then you think you will inspire
Take apart your head
(and I wish I could inspire)
Take apart your demons, then you add it to the list.
Goodbye you liar,
Well you sipped from the cup but you don't own up to anything
Then you think you will inspire
Take apart your head
(and I wish I could inspire)
Take apart your demons, then you add it to the list.
It's the fact that it's in a court of law. Imagine a Hindu, a Buddhist, an atheist, whatever, who was going on trial in a building prominently displaying a large stone monument of the 10 Commandments. Do you think they'd feel assured of an impartial, fair trial?
A monument may not physically injure or kill anyone, but it <i>can</i> be harmful. It undermines the ideal of an impartial government and the rights of the minority, which are vital for a democracy.
A monument may not physically injure or kill anyone, but it <i>can</i> be harmful. It undermines the ideal of an impartial government and the rights of the minority, which are vital for a democracy.
On the note of the court... Do you still have to swear on the bible? Because that doesn't mean squat to someone who isn't Christian.
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Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down, I'll find the way to peace and openness.
"Robbo" - © Alex (happeningfish)...^5 ^5 v v
Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down, I'll find the way to peace and openness.
"Robbo" - © Alex (happeningfish)...^5 ^5 v v
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Sufjan Stevens
- Posts: 6738
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 12:25 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
One-Eye wrote:You just don't get it, do you?
Gee, no I don't. I forgot, I must be retarded. I don't understand simple things much anymore.
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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Sufjan Stevens
- Posts: 6738
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 12:25 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
Sorry for the double-post, but I just wanted to say this.
I honestly don't understand you people. Why are you all like this? It makes no sense. Yes, it's a statue of the ten commandments, and yes, you might not practice religion, but why do you find it so offensive? It clearly does not affect you people. I mean, no one on this board is from Alabama, so why does someone from the Toronto area and Seattle care so much about this statue? It in no way effects you at all. If you're a decent citizen, you'll never have to end up in a court house. Along with that, if you're going to trial for something important, the least of your worries shouldn't be a statue of something God may or may not have said back in the day because you're a practicing pagan. Please explain to me why this is such a big deal and causes such an uproar from people it will never effect. I am dying to know.
And to let you know, no I am not religious at all. But statues and beliefs don't offend me so much that I have to be a crybaby and have the federal government remove it. Life will never work that way. You have a problem? Fix it yourself, don't cry until someone else feels bad and takes it away to make you happy.
But I guess I still don't understand, because I really must be stupid.
I honestly don't understand you people. Why are you all like this? It makes no sense. Yes, it's a statue of the ten commandments, and yes, you might not practice religion, but why do you find it so offensive? It clearly does not affect you people. I mean, no one on this board is from Alabama, so why does someone from the Toronto area and Seattle care so much about this statue? It in no way effects you at all. If you're a decent citizen, you'll never have to end up in a court house. Along with that, if you're going to trial for something important, the least of your worries shouldn't be a statue of something God may or may not have said back in the day because you're a practicing pagan. Please explain to me why this is such a big deal and causes such an uproar from people it will never effect. I am dying to know.
And to let you know, no I am not religious at all. But statues and beliefs don't offend me so much that I have to be a crybaby and have the federal government remove it. Life will never work that way. You have a problem? Fix it yourself, don't cry until someone else feels bad and takes it away to make you happy.
But I guess I still don't understand, because I really must be stupid.
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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Henrietta
I really could care less if it is there or not. The only reason I think religion gets mixed up in government is because people try to do the right thing, and for alot of people, their religion dictates the right thing to do for them. That's obviously not the case, since plenty of non-religious people do the right thing and plenty of religious people do wrong things. That's just why I think we get mixed up with ever having that statue there in the first place.
The thing is, as soon as the government is forcing you to follow those 10 commandments, complain. For the time being, they're just on a statue. I agree with separation of church from state, but a monument isn't harming anyone (unless, as alan said, the monument was that of a hate crime or something. It wasn't. It simply tells us to love our neighbor )
)Don't ask questions, just accept it.
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Sufjan Stevens
- Posts: 6738
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 12:25 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
Well, here's how I see it.
A normal religious person makes a moral decision and thanks the Bible or whatever their cup of tea is. Now, a non-religious person in the same situation would, in most cases, make the same exact choice because of their morals. See, the lessons in the Bible are the same lessons are parents teach us. Our parents teach us the 10 commandments, except they replace the "don't worship another god" with "don't ignore what I say."
Don't blame society's unwillingness to accept homosexuality on religion. When we're children and growing up, our parents don't say anything like, "If you're gay, it's fine with me." No parent wants their child to grow up gay, that's just how life is. Now if you're a atheist from an atheist household and you're a homophobe, then what do you blame your views on? The Bible? That's seems to be the fashionable reason as to why homosexuality is wrong, and that is what people give as their reason as to why it is wrong, even if the person is an atheist.
Face it, if there were no religion, we'd have the same morals we do today. Our parents play a larger part in our lives than religion does, and just because people thank the Bible for their lives and decisions, that doesn't make the Bible the only reason they grew up the way they are today.
A normal religious person makes a moral decision and thanks the Bible or whatever their cup of tea is. Now, a non-religious person in the same situation would, in most cases, make the same exact choice because of their morals. See, the lessons in the Bible are the same lessons are parents teach us. Our parents teach us the 10 commandments, except they replace the "don't worship another god" with "don't ignore what I say."
Don't blame society's unwillingness to accept homosexuality on religion. When we're children and growing up, our parents don't say anything like, "If you're gay, it's fine with me." No parent wants their child to grow up gay, that's just how life is. Now if you're a atheist from an atheist household and you're a homophobe, then what do you blame your views on? The Bible? That's seems to be the fashionable reason as to why homosexuality is wrong, and that is what people give as their reason as to why it is wrong, even if the person is an atheist.
Face it, if there were no religion, we'd have the same morals we do today. Our parents play a larger part in our lives than religion does, and just because people thank the Bible for their lives and decisions, that doesn't make the Bible the only reason they grew up the way they are today.
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
Rufus Wainwright wrote:Sorry for the double-post, but I just wanted to say this.
I honestly don't understand you people. Why are you all like this? It makes no sense. Yes, it's a statue of the ten commandments, and yes, you might not practice religion, but why do you find it so offensive? It clearly does not affect you people. I mean, no one on this board is from Alabama, so why does someone from the Toronto area and Seattle care so much about this statue? It in no way effects you at all. If you're a decent citizen, you'll never have to end up in a court house. Along with that, if you're going to trial for something important, the least of your worries shouldn't be a statue of something God may or may not have said back in the day because you're a practicing pagan. Please explain to me why this is such a big deal and causes such an uproar from people it will never effect. I am dying to know.
And to let you know, no I am not religious at all. But statues and beliefs don't offend me so much that I have to be a crybaby and have the federal government remove it. Life will never work that way. You have a problem? Fix it yourself, don't cry until someone else feels bad and takes it away to make you happy.
But I guess I still don't understand, because I really must be stupid.
yet your offended by an article written by an american on Canada? it is just an article, but its a big difference????????
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Sufjan Stevens
- Posts: 6738
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 12:25 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
No, I am offended by your anti-American viewpoint. You start two threads about why America is bad. It's not needed. You know there are Americans on this board, so why do you decide it's a good idea to trash them? Honestly, there's no need for those threads.
It doesn't matter that an American wrote it, I don't speak to the person. The person who posted it is a person who has a history of posting things that other people write that insult Americans. You posted three articles yesterday, and you kept posting every Matt Good journal entry (ya know, the Matt Good fans would have went to his website to look at it) and when you started posting them, they too, were full of anti-American views. So let me get this straight, am I supposed to let you keep trashing the place I live, or do I have the right to shut your ass up? I'm dying to know. You're out of hand.
Stay on topic.
It doesn't matter that an American wrote it, I don't speak to the person. The person who posted it is a person who has a history of posting things that other people write that insult Americans. You posted three articles yesterday, and you kept posting every Matt Good journal entry (ya know, the Matt Good fans would have went to his website to look at it) and when you started posting them, they too, were full of anti-American views. So let me get this straight, am I supposed to let you keep trashing the place I live, or do I have the right to shut your ass up? I'm dying to know. You're out of hand.
Stay on topic.
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
matt good is just like any other anti-war celeb in america, he writes about american foreign policy, NOT american people, it wasn't on a huge anti-american binge, i decided to restart my Matt Journals, because some people are fans and others are anti-war and enjoy his articles. The other articles i found on a diffrent Message board and decided to post it, it wasn't a massive anti-american attack. As i said before Canadian Superiority is offensive? But when we canadians (and everyone else in the world for that matter) speak of american superiority being offensive we're just plain wrong? I DON'T hate American's, i'm a Democratic Socialist, and i'm also anti-vilolence, hate, racism and war, Of course i'm angry about american foreign policy, not americans, because i know many americans dislike bush more then i do
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
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Sufjan Stevens
- Posts: 6738
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 12:25 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
Jesus fucking Christ I am sick of you. It's like I say something and you don't read it. I clearly said I am not pro-war or some bleeding heart nationalist. I don't like America. I keep it to myself though. The whole point is you don't have any fucking right to tell us that America is worse than Canada. You don't, you never will, so shut up.
I don't give a flying fuck if you think Canada is better than America. That's your own stupid opinion, and you choose to give it. If you said it once, then fine, we know your opinion and we'll deal with it. But no, you start two fucking threads on the same day to tell everyone here how bad America is, on top of having a Matt Good bashes American everything thread. I am not offended that you think Canada is better, I am offended that you keep churning out the same bullshit about why where I live is so terrible compared to your holy land of Canada. We get the fucking point, you think Canada is better than Great Satan. You don't need to start thread after thread about it. It's redundant and says nothing more than "I hate everything American."
Go ahead and say what you want about America. I don't care. Just do me a favor. Make a thread like "I am a fucktard and like to post dozens of articles about why America is horrible" and leave it at that. That way, people that are sick of your fucking articles and America bashing can stay the fuck out. That's it.
I don't give a flying fuck if you think Canada is better than America. That's your own stupid opinion, and you choose to give it. If you said it once, then fine, we know your opinion and we'll deal with it. But no, you start two fucking threads on the same day to tell everyone here how bad America is, on top of having a Matt Good bashes American everything thread. I am not offended that you think Canada is better, I am offended that you keep churning out the same bullshit about why where I live is so terrible compared to your holy land of Canada. We get the fucking point, you think Canada is better than Great Satan. You don't need to start thread after thread about it. It's redundant and says nothing more than "I hate everything American."
Go ahead and say what you want about America. I don't care. Just do me a favor. Make a thread like "I am a fucktard and like to post dozens of articles about why America is horrible" and leave it at that. That way, people that are sick of your fucking articles and America bashing can stay the fuck out. That's it.
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
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starseed_10
- Posts: 10473
- Joined: 8/21/2002, 8:31 am
- Location: 123 fake street
- Contact: