What are your views on this?

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/22/2003, 8:03 pm

http://gccirclepitt.com/magscans/suicidesong.jpg

Read that and discuss. I feel bad that the girl took her life, but give me a break. Those parents are pathetic. Let's blame our daughter's death on the music she listens to and her friends for not telling us that she wasn't happy. Maybe if her parents noticed that their daughter was depressed, this wouldn't be a problem. No one that is all smiling and laughing and shit kills themself, contrary to every single story about a teenage suicide. Most people talk to their friends about it and look visibly depressed, and either eat much more than normal or start starving themselves. If the parents can't see the obvious, then they have a problem and should deal with the death themselves. Don't blame everything else for this, if they were attentive to their daughter's moods, demeanor, and nearly every other action she shows, it should be clear that she was depressed.

But as long as there's music that isn't like Britney Spears and friends that don't know what to do because they're only teenagers and are scared, it's always their fault. Assume responsibility. You could have saved your daughter's life if you have a shit and actually noticed something about her, so shut the hell up about music.

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 7/22/2003, 8:17 pm

are adults ever able to admite fault in their ability to parent? :wtf:

Candy-coated Fake · Post by **Candy-coated Fake** » 7/22/2003, 8:28 pm

Why do parents always blame music for everything? Gawd, that irks me. They never claim any fault for anything.

BTW, at the end of the music video for Adam's Song it has an ad for "Kids Help." Obviously blink 182 isn't glorifying suicide. They're portraying the horror and sadness of it.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/22/2003, 8:58 pm

It always has to be someone else's fault when it comes to this shit. Imagine how bad those teenage friends of theirs felt when she killed herself. Well, they must feel a lot worse now because the kid's mom is blaming the death on her friends in a nation-wide magazine.

Does anyone else here think that is the worst suicide note ever? There's not a complete sentence in there, it doesn't make any sense at all, it's illegible, and the kid couldn't at least humor people by spelling out entire words, but uses "u" and shit like that. Come on kid, this is the note that everyone will remember you by, at least make it something meaningful.

Candy-coated Fake · Post by **Candy-coated Fake** » 7/22/2003, 9:02 pm

Maybe she was too busy thinking about dying to think about proper English.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/22/2003, 9:06 pm

Still, some effort would be greatly appreciated. I mean, an explanation of the suicide is a must. You can't leave cliffhangers when it comes to death, there's no way to ever explain it. You have to lay all your cards out on the table. I know I'd make sure to mention everyone that I know and write something personal for them. I wouldn't just say "Bye guys, I'm sorry. I'll miss u! Good Charlotte roxors my soxors" or something like that. I'd like some meaning in it. This is death we're talking about. That note seems more appropriate to give someone if you lost their book or something.

Candy-coated Fake · Post by **Candy-coated Fake** » 7/22/2003, 9:39 pm

Yeah, I guess you're right. She didn't sound suicidal in that note at all, now that I've read it again. It seemed as if she was writing a note to a friend, not a note about suicide.

Once again, I'm proven wrong. Curses!

robcore · Post by **robcore** » 7/23/2003, 3:54 am

Seriously, Alan's totally right. If i were to kill myself (which just isn't as fun as those darned kids think it is, thanks to Blink 182 of course), I'd probably write individual notes (more likes novels, i'd probably have a lot to say) to everyone close to me. I dunno, i would kind of owe an explanation, like Al said. Instead, "Go NSYNC!"

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/23/2003, 9:00 am

Exactly Rob. I mean, if you feel it's necessary to take your own life and affect everyone's lives around you, you better fucking leave the people something. I know that If I ever had the need to kill myself, I would want everyone to know that it isn't specifically any of their faults, but rather an accumulation of things that bogged me down, and letting them know that this is what was planned for me and that I couldn't be saved. I would leave everyone that touched me a personal part to the note, letting them know how I feel and hoping that they'll be alright. Anyways, if I write that long of a note, hopefully it will make me calm down and I would be alright, and if not, at least everyone knows how I felt.

sandsleeper · Post by **sandsleeper** » 7/23/2003, 9:32 am

alright obviously this girl had some major problems that had nothing to do with the music. if the music had anything to do with her sickness at all, it was a symptom rather than a cause.

now if somehow it can be argued that this girl had absolutely no problems beforehand and it was just these couple of songs that drove her to do it then all i can say is wow, what a dumb girl.

areusad831 · Post by **areusad831** » 7/23/2003, 9:36 am

they always blame adams song it is getting so old and at the end of the song the kid lives so therfore you cant blame that song. There had to be something motivating her to do this people just dont suddenly listen to a song and wrap a rope around their neck. Parents probably neglected her since they had 3 other sons and she felt the need for attention...that is one possibility that comes to my mind. Sometimes buying someone a four post bed doesnt exactly make them happy.

Mechanical Thought · Post by **Mechanical Thought** » 7/23/2003, 11:10 am

Firstly, I think that if my favourite band was Good Charlotte, or something like that, I would want to take my own life.
But all jokes aside, I don't think that you can blame the music she listens to for this stuff. How are the artists "glorifying" suicide? I mean ... its just lyrics. And since it was Good Charlotte's partially, you know they didn't write them.
I also wonder, like others, how the parents didn't notice this? Did they never talk to her or something? They didn't notice the little things that can signal she's feeling this way? :wtf:

I also agree with Alan and Rob, about leaving notes behind. You shouldn't leave the world without consolation to those who loves you. I would leave somethng for everyone that meant something to me, good or bad. This is how people know how you feel, and can answer the questions they have. She looks like she wrote that note to a friend or to her parents before going out.

finding emo · Post by **finding emo** » 7/23/2003, 11:19 am

I agree with Rob about "adam's song" The last verse is more hopeful,

"I never conquered, rarely came
Tomorrow holds such better days
Days when I can still feel alive
When I cant wait to get outside
The world is wide, the time goes by
The tour is over, I survived
I can't wait till I get home
To pass the time in my room alone"

It's kind of like telling people that yes there will be a period in everyone's life where they become depressed, but emotions are very cyclical.

You need to have more of a reason other than music. But it also seems like people that are depressed, are usually drawn into bands that have songs about suicide. It's not the bands fault, nor could anyone ever prove that to be so. They aren't telling people, "Hey, listen to this so you kill yourself" you have a choice to listen to it and a choice to do what you want to do. People need to stop looking for scapegoats.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/23/2003, 11:49 am

Exactly. It's not like I started listening to Dashboard Confessional then became depressed, I was depressed then started listening to Dashboard Confessional. Happy people don't tend to listen to depressing music for fun. It comes with the territory. And unless any of these songs out there say "You lead a pathetic life, so do us all a favor and end it <person's name here>" then I can't see how music is at any fault. Yes, music can touch an individual personally, but I am sure Good Charlotte is not the kind of band to glorify anything but being psuedo-punks and having a good time. Just because they have one somewhat meaningful song on a cd does not mean you can blame them for the deaths of people.

starseed_10 · Post by **starseed_10** » 7/23/2003, 12:01 pm

the only thing i disagree with after reading everyone's posts is that it's not as simple as "parents should be able to tell if their kid is that depressed". I'm sure there are a lot of cases where kids hide their depression so other people dont make a big deal about it. also pretty much everyone goes through a depressed stage at some time in their life, if a parent lets this go thinking their son/daughter will bounce back from it like anyone else they arent necessarily at fault.

other than that I agree that music cant be blamed and you cant place the blame on one specific area... its a whole bunch of things added up. That note was also way to small.

thirdhour · Post by **thirdhour** » 7/23/2003, 12:13 pm

you can't blame it on anyone, the music especcially, but its also not fair to blame it on the parents. they probably didnt realize how serious it is, or she hid it from them too well.

and i know from presonal experience, music helps more than it hurts. its a comfort, when theres nothing else you can depend on, you know that music that touches you is there. olp in particular has helped me get through some hard times, and just recently, a friend told me she was considering suicide, but i had told her that julia was an uplifting song that made me feel better no matter what, and she went at listened to it, and it worked. as far as im conserned, for the time being, olp has helped save her life.

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 7/23/2003, 1:03 pm

starseed_10 wrote:the only thing i disagree with after reading everyone's posts is that it's not as simple as "parents should be able to tell if their kid is that depressed". I'm sure there are a lot of cases where kids hide their depression so other people dont make a big deal about it.

thats very true
when you are severely depressed.. its not too hard to learn how to put on a 'happy face' and go about your day..
i also agree with val on depression being cyclical.. especially if the girl was manic or bi-polar.. if she was then its perfectly logical for her to be very happy and smiley and "on top of the world" one day and so depressed the next or a few days later that she'd do something like that..
i know ppl who have been very depressed and the like who's parents are oblivious to it.. is my friends mom stupid? no.. does my friend and her mom have a bad relationship or one lacking in some way? no.. theyre "best of friends" and yet.. her mom knows nothing of what she's been thru.. its easy to blame music.. its also easy to blame the parents.. hell.. i knew my friend was depressed and i knew my friend was going thru bad times yet everytime i saw her she was happy as could be and perfectly "normal" .. even around me, someone she came to for advice and help..

Soozy · Post by **Soozy** » 7/23/2003, 1:21 pm

As for blaming Good Charlotte and 'The Day That I Die' - that album also has 'Hold On' on it which is an anti-suicide song about how everyone has bad times but you should keep going because it gets better. As people have said - it's a question of being attracted to songs that mirror the way you're feeling rather than the other way round.

And it isn't that hard to be depressed without anyone else noticing. I used to go to work and out with my friends and be all smiley and act happy all day and then go home and cry all night and no-one would ever know how I was really feeling.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 7/23/2003, 1:31 pm

I don't see how anyone can hide the fact that they're suicidal that well. Yeah, a simple seasonal depression can be hidden and will fade away, but it you're that depressed, then there should be some signs. If you've come to the decision to hang yourself in your bedroom, then odds are you haven't been walking around with a smile on your face and been taking care of yourself all that well as of late. There are always signs to depression, and if the parents aren't able to pick up on them, then who is at fault? The parents, the music, or the friends? It's not necessarily all on the parents, but you have to pay some attention to your children, maybe talk to them, and be able to pick up on these things. If you knew your child well enough, your child could still be alive.

clumsychild_ · Post by **clumsychild_** » 7/23/2003, 1:52 pm

This girl was definitely not okay, she took these lyrics way too much to heart. You can't blame the lyrics, sure some lyrics can change your life and the way you think about things, but this girl obviously went too far. She didn't have enough sense to realize that the lyrics are being sung by people who probably just want to sell records, and should not be taken seriously. From the article, it seems so casual as if she just heard the lyrics and decided "i want to kill myself, because it sounds nice". And then she did it, without any regard for anyone else. She told her friends but i wonder if she told them after she heard the lyrics, or before? If it was before, there might actually be some meaning to her suicide, that she actually had some problems, but if it was after she heard them, then that's just pathetic. It doesn't seem as if she was trying to make a point with her suicide either. And the suicide note proves that.