If this is what you want your future to be like...

[One-Eye]

[mosaik]

yep. and i'm all for leading a troupe of angry anarchists right to their doorsteps and blowing them all off the face of the earth if we find out they've done some wrong.

but simply keeping to yourself and thinking that the white race is superior is not a crime. and hiring based on those inclinations isn't one either.

or at least it shouldn't be.

[One-Eye]

And then you turn around and say Affirmative Action, which you claim is reverse-racism, IS a crime for doing that very thing you say shouldn't be a crime.

I don't follow.

[Solidarity 9-6347]

the hardest thing that a person...im talking about me in particular, will ever have to come to terms with is that each opinion is valid in its own right...i am in no way defending racism because thats not my belief, but it may be someone elses. i however have a problem with one person truly believeing that their opinion is the only right one and then forcing their will onto everyone within their influence. who is to say that your way is the right one? in my opinion, we aren't born with "right" and "wrong", it all stems from empathy and basic survival instincts. eventually an individual realizes that they don't want something done to them so in turn they decide not to do it to others. if you want to help someone, by all means go ahead, but in my opinion it would be a little fascist to force everyone else to do the same.

did that make any sense?

[Solidarity 9-6347]

[Sufjan Stevens]

[One-Eye]

Ah, but there has to be a higher standard. I am NOT okay with allowing for oppression and violence against innocents just because someone has a deeply held belief that their race is superior and intend to act upon it. I'm not a believer in absolute moral rights and wrongs, but I am a believer in absolute human rights and wrongs. There is no justification for violence and oppression, be it race-based or otherwise. In this case, I AM right and they ARE wrong. There are many other things I strongly believe in, but at the same time am willing to admit that other opinions than mine are equally valid - religion and politics for example. With oppression and violence - the outer markings of hatred - I am quite certain that in terms of human society these are wrongs. There is no valid data in any field, be it ethical, philosophical, scientific, logical, or anything else to lend moral support to these behaviors. In this, as in almost NO other things, I am quite certain that MY opinion is the right one, and I challenge any of you to provide even cursory evidence otherwise. The best moral arguments for racism (and other forms of oppression) that history and modern society have had to offer have all been debunked. Racism is WRONG.

Affirmative Action, if it can be proved to be a racist policy, would therefore also be wrong. But up until now in this discussion, that hasn't been proven. No evidence has even been presented, just abstract theory. I have argued for it in the past, but I remain undecided on my ultimate opinion on the matter. It merits more research by me that I will not have the time to do until after finals. For now, I will leave it for myself undecided.

[Sufjan Stevens]

[One-Eye]

[mosaik]

[One-Eye]

I disagree, but I cannot force you (nor would I wish to) to share my values.

[mosaik]

if i were a racist, however, you'd have no problem forcing me to hire blacks, for instance.

why's that?

[starvingeyes]

[Narbus]

[mosaik]

[Narbus]

[I AM ME]

[mosaik]

[Narbus]

Well then YAY!

[mosaik]

i guess it's proof that i don't know everything.