Hrm.
I abhor drug use. I absolutely despise it, and to be honest, I'm not entirely sure why. If my closest friends started using drugs, I'd stop talking to them.
Unfortunately for me, I also believe people should be free with what they can do to themselves, regardless of how much I hate it. Freedom is a principle I hold above personal pet peeves, so I think the government should allow people to do what they want with their bodies.
the reality of your war on drugs
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joe_canadian
- Oskar Winner: 2006
- Posts: 7446
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 4:11 pm
- Location: Ontario
http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.008.gif
I think this explains the War on Drugs pretty well.
I think this explains the War on Drugs pretty well.
OW! She really don't like it... rock the casbah, rock the casbah!
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happening fish
- Oskar Winner: 2006
- Posts: 17934
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 11:22 am
starving eyes wrote:drought, fire, flood and foreign competition may very well break the "average farmer" but the guy growing carrots in his backyard does not.
as you pointed out, the demand for the drink is what created the mafia. when alcohol was legalized, the demand was supplied by legal, non violent means. the mafia disappeared.
the demand for drugs, in this case marijuana, is <b>never</b> going away, no matter how much propaganda the government spreads about it. people who have tried most narcotics know that their government is <b>lying to them</b> about the effects of these drugs. not to mention, some of these drugs are addictive.
therefore, the only way you can eliminate drug cartels and the violent crime which is associated with them is by ending the pointless and ineffective prohibition on the product that they sell.
Mafia isn't gone, as i recall i think one of Gatti's son's was dealing X in california. they haven't gone away they've moved on to other profitable things, like DRUGS!
your right the demand for drugs isn't going away, and it's a godamn shame that it isn't. this shit isn't needed on the godamn streets it's needed elsewhere. legalizing this shit is going to give lawyers hard on's because they'll find a loop-hole in the system that will allow drugs on the street and it's gonna let farmers grow this shit while they get a check for beating the system.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
Hey. I just noticed something.
All those links you provided came from the same two pro-legalization websites. Where's the "rational" viewing of both sides? Where's the stories of people driving while high, of pissing their lives away in a haze?
There was a story in my campus newspaper not long ago about a high school honor student who flunked out of college because of a drug habit developed while in college.
I fail to see how providing sources from only highly-biased sites constitutes an arguement. If I start posting stuff from the KKK site, can I claim that whites are best? It's right there, on the internet. I'm sure they have plenty of anecdotal evidence, too.
ps: I'm just really sick of the whole "OMG GOVERNMENT SUCKS 100%" attitude. I'm challenging you out of spite, Capt. Pinata.
All those links you provided came from the same two pro-legalization websites. Where's the "rational" viewing of both sides? Where's the stories of people driving while high, of pissing their lives away in a haze?
There was a story in my campus newspaper not long ago about a high school honor student who flunked out of college because of a drug habit developed while in college.
I fail to see how providing sources from only highly-biased sites constitutes an arguement. If I start posting stuff from the KKK site, can I claim that whites are best? It's right there, on the internet. I'm sure they have plenty of anecdotal evidence, too.
ps: I'm just really sick of the whole "OMG GOVERNMENT SUCKS 100%" attitude. I'm challenging you out of spite, Capt. Pinata.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
i can't fucking believe what i'm fucking reading right now. this month's texas monthly. there's a huge article in this Magazine about Juarez, Mexico. this place is filled with gangs and drug trafficers and drug cartels. they push shit into the US through El Paso. now in many cases some of the drugs don't get there, they get picked up at check points or right on the border. do you have any fucking idea how these drug trafficers make up the lost money on a picked up load of drugs? i'll let you take a guess, and then i'm gonna tell you what's going on because of your habbit.
TAKE A GUESS!
TAKE A GUESS!
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
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starvingeyes
- Oskar Winner: 2007
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
- Location: california's not very far
and i am really sick of your "OMG! president bush said that the sky is really green it must be true!!" swallow-everything-they-give-you sheeple attitude.
firstly, on the issue of marijuana, everything the government has told you about it is a lie. this is a FACT. i know, because I HAVE SMOKED IT. i did not
a. go insane
b. become addicted to heroin
c. become addicted to marijuana
d. kill anybody
e. lose my sexual inhibitions
f. lose my short term memory
in fact, marijuana is far less impairing to your judgement then alcohol, and far less harmful to your body. alcohol is legal. if you cannot accept the simple fact that there is NO REASON that pot shouldn't be legal, we cannot have a discussion.
secondly, narcotics are no different then any other addictive substance, like alcohol, caffeine or nicotine. for some people, the use of this substance is going to turn into a problem. for others, it will not.
jacob sullum recently wrote a book called "Saying Yes". <a href ="http://www.reason.com/0306/fe.js.h.shtml" target ="new">this article</a> is adapted from that book. read it. think.
lastly, i have a challenge for you. what gives you the right to tell somebody else what they can and cannot do on their property, or on the property of somebody who permits their activities, with their bodies? what makes you so special? unless you can come with a logical, rational justification for this, this discussion is over.
face it: the war on drugs is wrong, it is ineffective, and it is breeding violent crime. no reasonable human being supports it.
firstly, on the issue of marijuana, everything the government has told you about it is a lie. this is a FACT. i know, because I HAVE SMOKED IT. i did not
a. go insane
b. become addicted to heroin
c. become addicted to marijuana
d. kill anybody
e. lose my sexual inhibitions
f. lose my short term memory
in fact, marijuana is far less impairing to your judgement then alcohol, and far less harmful to your body. alcohol is legal. if you cannot accept the simple fact that there is NO REASON that pot shouldn't be legal, we cannot have a discussion.
secondly, narcotics are no different then any other addictive substance, like alcohol, caffeine or nicotine. for some people, the use of this substance is going to turn into a problem. for others, it will not.
jacob sullum recently wrote a book called "Saying Yes". <a href ="http://www.reason.com/0306/fe.js.h.shtml" target ="new">this article</a> is adapted from that book. read it. think.
lastly, i have a challenge for you. what gives you the right to tell somebody else what they can and cannot do on their property, or on the property of somebody who permits their activities, with their bodies? what makes you so special? unless you can come with a logical, rational justification for this, this discussion is over.
face it: the war on drugs is wrong, it is ineffective, and it is breeding violent crime. no reasonable human being supports it.
please...take a guess...someone anyone.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
that's right......you tell me why you suport these fucking people. the government can legalize it here in the US, it still doesn't matter, they'll still bring it over at a cheaper price. it doesn't matter cause they bought out the Mexican police, (who are too busy fighting each other...state vs local vs federal) they bought out the border agents, (cause earning 30,000 now a days just doesn't cut it) and the police bring in scape goats to get the media off their ass even though the killings are still going on. there are numberous finding of sheds with blood, womens garments and drug cartel symbols carved into the walls of these places out in the desert. what the fuck is the point to bring you your shit to smoke. bravo, the government refuses a few people their necessary pot and more women die in Mexico.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
i don't support them. if pot were legalized, there would be no need for them to smuggle the drugs across the border. there would be no shipments lost except by error of UPS (who could be sued for the lost goods). there would be no need to cut up human beings and sell the parts.
the violence would disappear. so, actually, your government killed McWilliams and the women in mexico. not just your government, but government in general.
the violence would disappear. so, actually, your government killed McWilliams and the women in mexico. not just your government, but government in general.
it doesn't matter if it's legalized or not....they are still going to bring it over. if it is ever legalized, the government is going to want to ensure quality, and they don't want people from Mexico bringing dirty pot over. the demand is still going to be there because it's going to be cheaper too. it's not the government's fault that mexican women are dying it all comes down to the demand. the demand is the reason for all this shit you cannot deny that at all. the government is only trying to curve the supply the demand is a constant that kills people. it's rough living in Juarez, you can't blame people for accepting money on the side to turn the other way. you try living in a house made out of wooden pallets and that black shit they put on houses, with no AC and no refrigerator in the middle of the desert.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
who says Mexico is going to legalize it?
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
starving eyes wrote:and i am really sick of your "OMG! president bush said that the sky is really green it must be true!!" swallow-everything-they-give-you sheeple attitude.
Okay, first, I haven't ever said that. I said that there are certain things that I enjoy (roads, hospitals, etc) that take an orgaized effort by many people to successfully create. Government is a much more acceptable method of this than corporate rulers, to me. You're the one posting slanted, anecdotal news stories from a very biased site without considering the other side.
firstly, on the issue of marijuana, everything the government has told you about it is a lie. this is a FACT. i know, because I HAVE SMOKED IT. i did not
a. go insane
b. become addicted to heroin
c. become addicted to marijuana
d. kill anybody
e. lose my sexual inhibitions
f. lose my short term memory
You either:
A. Took a baby hit.
B. Had some crappy marijuana.
I've tried it too, and have friends who have, and I know what it does. A, B, C, and E didn't happen, but you can't prove that driving while high hasn't killed anyone, and the effects of marijuana on short term memory are rather well-documented. While you're high, and for a period after (which depends on many things), your short-term memory is shot. There are also issues of susceptability, and mild halluciantory effects, similar to those caused by alcohol.
A while ago, I took a few massive hits, then went out to eat at a japanese resturant. While waiting in the bar for a table, the mural on the wall of cliffs and ocean turned into a giant picture of Cthulhu and I was sure that if I looked away it would kill me. And I was convinced the japanese people who ran the resturant somehow smuggled him over in an effort to rule the country. Don't tell me marijuana doesn't have some odd effects.
in fact, marijuana is far less impairing to your judgement then alcohol,
Again, in very tiny amounts, it's not a big deal. In larger amounts, it is. Same as alcohol.
and far less harmful to your body.
Because cancer << liver problems. In what world?
alcohol is legal. if you cannot accept the simple fact that there is NO REASON that pot shouldn't be legal, we cannot have a discussion.
Are you high right now? Because if we all agree on everything that's being said, with no dissent from any side, then that's not a discussion. That's a circle-jerk.
secondly, narcotics are no different then any other addictive substance, like alcohol, caffeine or nicotine. for some people, the use of this substance is going to turn into a problem. for others, it will not.
And because there is more than one person in the world, the choices made by a single person can have very long term effects for others. Drunk (or high) drivers, for example.
In our society, right now, where moderation in these types of activities is not something to be widely respected for, and drunkeness is a humorous thing, then yes there is a problem with legalization.
jacob sullum recently wrote a book called "Saying Yes". <a href ="http://www.reason.com/0306/fe.js.h.shtml" target ="new">this article</a> is adapted from that book. read it. think.
You know why you bother me so? Because you automatically assume that anyone who doesn't come to the same conclusion as you just has just shut off their brain. You are 100% incapable of holding two conflicting ideas in your brain and continuing to function. You are thinking on such a rudimentary level that you are incapable of seeing anything beyond your own little perfect worldview. Grow up.
lastly, i have a challenge for you. what gives you the right to tell somebody else what they can and cannot do on their property, or on the property of somebody who permits their activities, with their bodies? what makes you so special? unless you can come with a logical, rational justification for this, this discussion is over.
The fact that those people will not stay on their property. That they will go to bars, and then drive home. That they will congregate in the middle of a field, get really high, then cruise on home. That they will pilot my planes, operate my trains, and drive my oil tankers, and we all know how that ends up.
Because there are morons out there that like to fuck things up for everyone and yes it sucks and no it shouldn't be this way, but fuck if it isn't.
We are a part of a society, ie: There are other people out there and no matter how much you wish and hope and pray, our actions extend beyond ourselves, and there will always be morons. Pining for a future where everyone is educated, wearing flowing robes and lecturing in ivory towers is a waste of time. It's called "reality."
face it: the war on drugs is wrong, it is ineffective, and it is breeding violent crime. no reasonable human being supports it.
See above.
ps: Un Puno, usually we back up statements like "they chop up bodies and sell the parts" with some kind of reputable source.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
-
Sufjan Stevens
- Oskar Winner: 2005
- Posts: 6738
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 12:25 pm
- Location: Detroit, MI
Two things.
One. Commercials lie. Remember when they ran those commercials about "E kills everyone that takes it" on their campaign? Yeah, well, on average 80 people per year die from it. And those examples about people dying, well, those people took insane amounts of the drug. One girl from Michigan that they highlighted in these commecials died, but she took 5 whole pills and died from dehydration. The commercial makes it out to say that taking half a pill will make you die instantly. Therefore, I can't believe that anything they say in these commercials against pot are true. My parents have been smoking since before I was born, and last time I checked, they haven't had any of these effects. They've smoked for at least 25 years now, and let's see, they are still only on pot, they don't have lung cancer, or any other cancer for that matter, and they don't flip out from looking at things, let alone lose their short term memory.
Two. You know how you said you took a couple of hits and you thought some monster was out to kill you? Well, odds are you experienced one of two things. One could be that you smoked weed laced with something, be it opium, cocaine, LSD, or whatever, because you don't see Japanese monsters coming out to kill you from smoking normal weed. And if that is not the case, then either you're lying, were drunk, trying to make your point move valid, or just have a brain tumor. Monsters don't come out of walls to kill you from smoking normal pot. Sorry to spoil your fun buddy.
One. Commercials lie. Remember when they ran those commercials about "E kills everyone that takes it" on their campaign? Yeah, well, on average 80 people per year die from it. And those examples about people dying, well, those people took insane amounts of the drug. One girl from Michigan that they highlighted in these commecials died, but she took 5 whole pills and died from dehydration. The commercial makes it out to say that taking half a pill will make you die instantly. Therefore, I can't believe that anything they say in these commercials against pot are true. My parents have been smoking since before I was born, and last time I checked, they haven't had any of these effects. They've smoked for at least 25 years now, and let's see, they are still only on pot, they don't have lung cancer, or any other cancer for that matter, and they don't flip out from looking at things, let alone lose their short term memory.
Two. You know how you said you took a couple of hits and you thought some monster was out to kill you? Well, odds are you experienced one of two things. One could be that you smoked weed laced with something, be it opium, cocaine, LSD, or whatever, because you don't see Japanese monsters coming out to kill you from smoking normal weed. And if that is not the case, then either you're lying, were drunk, trying to make your point move valid, or just have a brain tumor. Monsters don't come out of walls to kill you from smoking normal pot. Sorry to spoil your fun buddy.
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
1. Click here. Read the following: Marijuana smoke causes cancer. It is more carcinogenic than tobacco smoke.
2. Read also: In high doses or especially among people who have mental disorders, using marijuana even once may cause extreme anxiety, paranoia, or hallucinations.
And because I care, the following links help:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/health/141891.stm
http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/parentpg13-14N.html
http://www.bdtzone.com/news_details.asp?ID=50 <= this site actually sells kits that are designed to help you pass drug tests. And they claim that three joints are equivalent to 10 packs of cigarettes in terms of cancer.
So there's that.
2. Read also: In high doses or especially among people who have mental disorders, using marijuana even once may cause extreme anxiety, paranoia, or hallucinations.
And because I care, the following links help:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/health/141891.stm
http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/parentpg13-14N.html
http://www.bdtzone.com/news_details.asp?ID=50 <= this site actually sells kits that are designed to help you pass drug tests. And they claim that three joints are equivalent to 10 packs of cigarettes in terms of cancer.
So there's that.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
i don't think the argument was made that weed doesn't kill you - or if it was being made, it shouldn't have been.
because weed can kill you - not directly (ie overdose) but the side-effects (ie cancer) sure can.
my point is, lots of things can kill you. like driving, flying, swimming, climbing a ladder, flying a kite, hiking and of course, me.
it's a dangerous thing, going outside your front door. is that stuff all illegal? smoking is bad for you too, some scientists believe nicotine is more addictive then heroin - it's legal.
my point is, there's no rational argument that i can think of for making drug use illegal. none whatsoever.
because weed can kill you - not directly (ie overdose) but the side-effects (ie cancer) sure can.
my point is, lots of things can kill you. like driving, flying, swimming, climbing a ladder, flying a kite, hiking and of course, me.
it's a dangerous thing, going outside your front door. is that stuff all illegal? smoking is bad for you too, some scientists believe nicotine is more addictive then heroin - it's legal.
my point is, there's no rational argument that i can think of for making drug use illegal. none whatsoever.