the reality of your war on drugs

Serious discussion area.
You realize that sometimes you're not okay, you level off, you level off, you level off...
User avatar
starvingeyes
Oskar Winner: 2007
Oskar Winner: 2007
Posts: 2009
Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
Location: california's not very far

the reality of your war on drugs

Post by starvingeyes »

or rather, your war on the citizens of your country who choose to use drugs.

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00/n833/a06.html?124

THE MURDER OF PETER MCWILLIAMS

An Indictment, Not an Obituary

Peter McWiliams, 50, best selling author, poet, photographer, publisher, libertarian crusader, medical marijuana activist, AIDS patient and cancer survivor, was found dead on the floor of his bathroom, apparently having choked to death after vomiting, for want of medical marijuana.

There will be an autopsy, but whatever the immediate cause of death may have been, he was murdered by the United States Government as surely as if they shot him. Indeed, it would have been much more humane if they had just put a bullet in his head. No one should have to go through what he suffered at the hands of his country.

When I learned of his death yesterday, I was too angry to write about it. Even now, this is being written more in anger than in sorrow. Peter is where they can't hurt him anymore, but his murderers are still at large, and if there is anything that Peter would want, it would be for us to continue to speak the truth to power, to tyranny.

Of course, if Peter did choke after vomiting it would be directly the result of his having been denied the right to use medical marijuana. Peter was a part of the roughly 40% of those patients for whom the anti-viral drugs being used to treat AIDS can cause violent nausea. The government knew this from direct observation. During at least one court appearance he vomited into a wastebasket during the hearing.

See: How the Government Helps Medical Marijuana Patients: "McWilliams vomited repeatedly in court Friday, prompting guards to keep a trash can nearby." http://marijuananews.com/how_the_govern ... edical.htm

Dealing with this nausea is one of the best documented uses of medical marijuana, and he had also used it during cancer chemotherapy, when he actually gained weight.

None of that mattered to the judge. None of that mattered to the prosecutor. After all, these are the same people who had held him in federal detention for months on a $250,000 bail, even though he posed no flight risk, the only justification for such a high bail.

See: Peter McWilliams Still Held on $250,000 Bond; Denied AIDS Medication For Four Days!!! Two Stories http://marijuananews.com/peter_mcwillia ... ld_on_.htm

Had he wanted to flee, he had plenty of time to do so before he was charged, but he is a world famous writer, so he could not hide. His publishing company was there in Los Angeles, and he was taking expensive anti-virals for AIDS. He really could not flee, but that did not prevent the government from violating his Constitutional rights.

Consider the lengths to which they went to keep him from raising the bail.

When his elderly mother pledged her house as security for the bail, they threatened that the government would seize her house if her son simply failed a drug test, not just if he were to flee. She would not be intimidated, but now her son is dead as the result of the conditions of the bail. These are the "family values" of America's war on the sick and dying.

See: "The federal prosecutor personally called my mother to tell her that if I was found with even a trace of medical marijuana, her house would be taken away." -- Peter McWilliams http://marijuananews.com/peter_mcwillia ... ld_on_.htm

During his incarceration, his AIDS viral load, which had been "undetectable" soared to dangerous levels. Peter was also very fragile psychologically. Aggravated by his health and legal problems, he often suffered from debilitating bouts of depression. Certainly, he was badly damaged by being in federal detention, and he knew from that experience that he could not survive very long if he were sent to prison. Thus, even if the immediate cause of his death were AIDS, or even suicide, the guilt for his death lies squarely at the door of the Justice Department and the Federal Courts, and the United States Government as a whole.

If an individual did what the federal government did to Peter McWilliams, deliberately deprive him of medicine that would save his life, that person would be indicted for murder. And this was murder. Moreover, it was premeditated, and a part of a pattern of the criminal abuse of power. Consider the evidence.

See: Federal Judge Rules Peter McWilliams Cannot Use Medical Marijuana -- Even to Save His Life! -- "They're just going to let me die." http://marijuananews.com/federal_judge_ ... mcwill.htm

First, Peter would want us to remember that he was merely the most famous victim of a campaign against the most vulnerable members of our society, the sick dying and disabled for whom marijuana is the only effective - or affordable - medicine.

See: A Message From Peter McWilliams, Prisoner Of The War On The Sick And Dying http://marijuananews.com/a_message_from ... lliams.htm

Many others are suffering anonymously in our vast prisons, underfunded hospices, and dark little rooms in the slums in our shining cities. Many others use medical marijuana, but live in fear of their government while doing so. And they have no choice. Tens of millions of Americans ­ and countless millions around the world -- have no health insurance to pay for the expensive pharmaceuticals, even if they worked as they are supposed to.

See AIDS and Medical Marijuana: On World AIDS Day Why Is No One Talking About the Cheapest Way To Help The Most People? Analysis By Richard Cowan http://marijuananews.com/aids_and_medical_marijuana.htm

Peter's case happened in California, the first state where the people had passed an initiative, specifically designed to prevent just this sort of cruelty. Following its passage, the Federal government and its allies among the federally subsidized state narcotics police have done everything to prevent its effective implementation. This effort continues even now.

See: Even In The State Capital, California Narks Violate Prop 215 and the Attorney General Won't Do His Duty. http://216.9.192.67/news.php3?sid3

However, Peter made the mistake of thinking that the law meant what it said. He wanted to provide others with the knowledge to be able to grow their own medicine. Although the government waited for awhile to arrest him, they did so with their usual pointless show of force. A large number of heavily armed men ransacked his house very early one morning, after handcuffing Peter. They seized his computers and ultimately destroyed all of his work in progress. Naturally, it was about medical marijuana.

See: Best Selling Author / AIDS-Cancer Patient Peter McWilliams Launches Medical Marijuana Press; Risks Federal Imprisonment in Doing So and Statement Of Author Peter McWilliams To Institute Of Medicine Medical Marijuana Hearings http://marijuananews.com/best_selling_author__aids.htm http://marijuananews.com/statement_of_a ... mcwill.htm

A few days before Peter's death, there was a fire in his home office that again destroyed all of his work in progress. I have no doubt that such a loss broke his heart and hastened his death. Several people have asked me if I suspected the government of having started the fire. My answer was simply that I have no idea, but given the theft of his work before, and the general depravity of their behavior, and given the fanaticism of the opposition to medical marijuana by both the federal government and the California narks, it is not an unwarranted suspicion.

See: California Narks Lie to Justify Disobeying Prop 215. And They Lie About Me In The Process. http://216.9.192.67/news.php3?sid165

In order to justify the suppression of medical marijuana it has become necessary to demonize the medical marijuana users. If medical marijuana has to be a "crock" to use the Drug Czar's inelegant phrase, then outspoken medical marijuana advocates like Peter must be dehumanized.

See: Czar Calls Medical Marijuana "A Crock." He Doesn't Know Anything About Medical Marijuana, But He Does Know Crocks. and Dying AIDS Patient Peter McWilliams Demands Drug Czar McCaffrey Implement Medical Marijuana Recommendations of National Academy of Sciences Institutes of Medicine Report http://216.9.192.67/news.php3?sid140 http://marijuananews.com/statement_of_a ... mcwill.htm

In fact, the "evil" of which he was originally accused was a conspiracy to provide medical marijuana. Think about that, a conspiracy to provide the sick and dying with something to help them in a state where the people had voted for just that. What a crime!

See: The Feds Drop The Other Jackboot; Indict Peter McWilliams, Todd McCormick and Others, Alleging Vast Conspiracy To Supply Medical Marijuana and Libertarian Party Says Peter McWilliams Is Victim of Efforts To Discredit Medical Marijuana http://marijuananews.com/feds_drop_the_ ... ckboot.htm http://marijuananews.com/libertarian_pa ... er_mcw.htm

The federal government began by denying the relevance of the state law, despite the 9th and 10th Amendments. However, when it realized that a "medical marijuana conspiracy" would raise issues that might make it difficult to get a jury to convict a person with AIDS, they changed the charges and simply accused him of conspiracy simply to grow marijuana.

Then they moved to deny him the right even to mention having had cancer and AIDS or make any reference to medical marijuana. This denied him the Anglo-Saxon common law right of claiming a "necessity" to break the law, because doing so prevented a greater harm. Surely growing a plant that saved your life would be such a necessity.

This might be called the fully uninformed jury strategy. It nullified the jury's right to know the facts of the case. Peter would not be the only victim of such an action. The jurors would have been unwittingly used to justify an evil that would be committed in its name. There is something especially terrible about involving innocent people in the commission of a crime to pass the moral responsibility on to society as a whole.

Thus, to prosecute a dying man for plotting to grow a plant, the federal government trampled on the laws of California, the Bill of Rights, and Common Law. What is the end that would justify such means?

See: Buckley Denounces Prosecution of McCormick and McWilliams In Strongest Terms Yet. "On the eve of the trial Judge King decided, so to speak, to eliminate the Bill of Rights." http://marijuananews.com/buckley_denoun ... ion_of.htm

Confronted with the inability to defend himself, Peter had no choice but to take a "plea bargain," such as it was, and so he confessed to the crime of having hoped to make money in America.

See: McCormick and McWilliams Plead Guilty to Avoid Ten Year Minimums. and Judge Rules Against Medical Necessity Defense For McCormick and McWilliams There Cannot Be Even a Mention of Medical Marijuana! Defies 9th Circuit Ruling. Press Release From McCormick and McWilliams http://marijuananews.com/mccormick_and_ ... lead_g.htm http://marijuananews.com/judge_rules_ag ... l_nece.htm

None of the norms of the various traditions that make up America seem to apply when the subject is marijuana, so Peter's confessing to a profit motive, the most American of motives, was seen by the government as vindicating the persecution of a dying man.

Righteously triumphant, the prosecution would offer nothing better than letting him throw himself on the mercy of the court in hopes of not having to serve five years. Given his fragile health, the prosecution could have agreed to probation or even house arrest, but they were opposed to the judge showing more "mercy" than they had. Through all of this the judge has been craven in protection of the most basic rights and denied all of the defense's key motions. But he was Peter's only hope. Now we will never know if there was any shred of decency or mercy behind the black robes of his executioner.

But never mind these little players who personify Arendt's phrase, the banality of evil. Before there can be any justice from them or for them, we must take back America from the prohibitionist police state that has highjacked it in what has rightly been called a "slow motion coup d'etat."

See: The Theory and Practice of Treason. -- 2 Items http://216.9.192.67/news.php3?sid214

It still seems bizarre to me, even after all these years, that marijuana prohibition ­ the suppression of a plant, and especially the suppression of the medical use of a plant -- could be the motive and justification for the total betrayal of all that Peter McWilliams believed, the freedom of American. It seems even more bizarre that the people of America have let this happen.

However, thanks to the bravery of people like Peter and other medical marijuana users, the American people are finally waking up to what is happening. Marijuana prohibition is going to end. How fast it ends will determine not only how many more tragedies like the murder of Peter McWilliams there will be, but also how much more damage is going to be done to the system and elites that perpetrated this massive fraud -- or just allowed it to happen. There could be nothing more "conservative" than ending marijuana prohibition tomorrow.

However, for each of us, the moral case is very simple. To witness a crime in silence is to commit it. If we are silent on the murder of Peter McWilliams, and all of the others whose suffering and death pass without notice, then we are as guilty as the judge, prosecutors, and politicians, and police who signed the papers that ultimately became a warrant for judicial murder. Silence would also make us complicit in the betrayal of the traditions and values that should have protected Peter and all the others.

The persecution of the sick and dying must end. And the system that perpetrates it - -- marijuana prohibition -- must end.

This is a time of profound moral crisis. Peter McWilliams is dead. Are you?

See: Peter McWilliams On Non-Violence: "Socrates, Jesus, and Martin Luther King did more for their causes by dying for them than by killing for them." and "It is the love of freedom, not the hatred of tyranny, that will turn this warring parent into an adored embrace." -- Peter McWilliams http://marijuananews.com/peter_mcwillia ... olence.htm http://marijuananews.com/it_is_the_love_of_freedom.htm
Image
User avatar
liam
Oskar Winner: 2003
Oskar Winner: 2003
Posts: 4815
Joined: 5/25/2002, 2:09 pm
Location: USA

Post by liam »

there is no war on drugs.
-Liam

"Sometimes Nothin' Can Be a Real Cool Hand"
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/regular14/coolhandluke.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
User avatar
Bandalero
Posts: 6219
Joined: 5/23/2002, 11:25 pm
Location: South Texas
Contact:

Re: the reality of your war on drugs

Post by Bandalero »

starving eyes wrote:If an individual did what the federal government did to Peter McWilliams, deliberately deprive him of medicine that would save his life, that person would be indicted for murder. And this was murder. Moreover, it was premeditated, and a part of a pattern of the criminal abuse of power. Consider the evidence.


according to you this isn't murder. remember the kill a baby to save 1,000,000 people scenario? this is exactly the case i argued with. your deliberately refusing to save 1,000,000 people, so instead of a murderer, your a mass murderer.

it's a sad story, but you know what, you only have yourself to blame. the truth is people abuse drugs all the damn time. I would like to see everything available used for the right causes. the truth is people who smoke pot to just get high are abusing the substance, and that's why the government has to come in and fight them. if you don't abuse the product then what happens is the substance is used when needed and there is regulation of it. but that's never going to happen, because shit sticks who smoke because they want to are fucking things up for the people who really need this shit. morphine is a good pain killer, but you know what, the shit people shoot up with is a better one. it's not used in hospitals because of this iresponsible use of it and people with unbearable pain that not even conventional pain killers can easy suffer for it.

if they were to tell me that beer cured cancer or aids, i would stop in a heartbeat, the truth is this shit is an herb and herbs can do alot of good. but when you abuse it and use it for your own personal reasons you mess shit up for everyone.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.


Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
User avatar
thirdhour
Oskar Winner: 2004
Oskar Winner: 2004
Posts: 7420
Joined: 1/19/2003, 10:23 pm
Location: montreal

Post by thirdhour »

What do you guys think about safe injection sites for drug addicts?


Here's two different articles arguing for either side:

yay:
http://www.drbongs.com/news/archives/00000096.html


nay:
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n2120/a01.html?343
Image
User avatar
Neil
Oskar Winner: 2010
Oskar Winner: 2010
Posts: 8405
Joined: 9/27/2002, 8:26 am
Location: Minnesota

Post by Neil »

as long as there are people called "fence jumpers" there is no war on drugs.
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
User avatar
I AM ME
Posts: 5956
Joined: 3/13/2002, 9:09 am
Location: Manitoba

Post by I AM ME »

i agree with the giving out of safe needles, because while the people are there they are encouraged to seek help, and we can also keep tabs on them, the attics will do drugs either way, we might as well lower aids cases.
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
User avatar
Narbus
Posts: 574
Joined: 8/7/2002, 7:56 pm

Post by Narbus »

Clumsyboy wrote:i agree with the giving out of safe needles, because while the people are there they are encouraged to seek help, and we can also keep tabs on them, the attics will do drugs either way, we might as well lower aids cases.


attics? Attics are things in houses where you put photos and antiques.


Anyway, I agree with Un Puño De Tierra. This is the same kind of situation as driving through a desert and refusing to help the dying person. The government is just denying aid, according to you there's nothing immoral about this.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett


When it's cold I'd like to die
User avatar
mosaik
dictator
dictator
Posts: 1637
Joined: 3/16/2002, 2:09 am
Location: Edmonton
Contact:

Post by mosaik »

sigh.

they are not "denying aid". they are actually placing a barrier in front of those who would seek to help themselves.

although you will still not understand, i will explain it for you now.

if a man is lying in the desert, dying of thirst, and i happen to spot him but for whatever reason cannot or choose not to assist him and he dies, i have not done anything to prevent him from living. if i did not exist or had never gone to the desert that day, he still would have died. do you understand so far?

now, we take the above example. McWilliams was sick. He needed medicine to help ease his suffering. Your government did not simply fail to provide the medicine for whatever reason, they knowingly, willfully barred McWilliams from obtaining it. If they(government) had not existed, he would have had easy access to the drugs he wanted. do you understand how the two examples are different?
Image
Corey
Posts: 2578
Joined: 3/19/2002, 10:25 am
Location: Rochester, NY
Contact:

Post by Corey »

the government didn't force him to take the drugs and get sick in the first place
<img src="http://www.clumsymonkey.net/phpBB2/download.php?id=4500">
#define QUESTION (bb || !bb) --william shakespeare
User avatar
mosaik
dictator
dictator
Posts: 1637
Joined: 3/16/2002, 2:09 am
Location: Edmonton
Contact:

Post by mosaik »

correct. but they did force him to remain that way.
Image
User avatar
starvingeyes
Oskar Winner: 2007
Oskar Winner: 2007
Posts: 2009
Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
Location: california's not very far

Post by starvingeyes »

my point is not really that the state murdered mcwilliams. my point is that he was viciously prosecuted under a ridiculous law and that he was clearly very harmless.
Image
User avatar
I AM ME
Posts: 5956
Joined: 3/13/2002, 9:09 am
Location: Manitoba

Post by I AM ME »

sorry about the typo thing.......i make alot of those if no ones noticed yet.... :roll:

i enjoy people completly ignoring my point so they can point out a mistake.....
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
User avatar
Bandalero
Posts: 6219
Joined: 5/23/2002, 11:25 pm
Location: South Texas
Contact:

Post by Bandalero »

crystal baller wrote:now, we take the above example. McWilliams was sick. He needed medicine to help ease his suffering. Your government did not simply fail to provide the medicine for whatever reason, they knowingly, willfully barred McWilliams from obtaining it. If they(government) had not existed, he would have had easy access to the drugs he wanted. do you understand how the two examples are different?


no, the abuse of drugs is what killed him. Drug abuse is the one that left him in this situation. "The man" denying people of this substance is only the effect, Drug Abuse is the cause. Without this abuse pot would just be some damn pill you take for whatever reason or purpose it has. I find it ironic that druggies embrace their "friends" who are suffering for their own damn selfish intentions. What kind of friend is that? And let's be honest, that's what this is about. Pot-heads around the world embrace topics like this because it gets them off that if a bleeding heart in the senate hears this story, they are one step closer to smoking up legally for their own purposes. it's not going to happen, if you really cared about this issue you would stop recreational smoking.

that's why i have an attitude toward pot-users, and that's why i think alcohol is a better habbit. you know what? beer companies all over the place make jobs avalable. in fact alot of beer companies donate to charity. they help the economy, they sponsor public events like concerts and boxing events. If i had my way addicts would be rounded up and kept in rehab until they get clean. and if they can't get clean, then there is no use for them, because their habbit is killing people. either way it's costing the government a shit load of money, while drug lords in where ever are rich and fat. how many charaties do they help out? what economy do they help? what jobs do they make avalable?
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.


Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
User avatar
starvingeyes
Oskar Winner: 2007
Oskar Winner: 2007
Posts: 2009
Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
Location: california's not very far

Post by starvingeyes »

drug abuse? reno, he had <i>aids</i>. the anti-virals he was on caused him to be extremely nauseous, a sympton he could combat only through the use of marijuana.

and if beer were illegal, none of the positive spillovers it creates would exist. if marijuana were legal, whose to say growers wouldn't do all of those things. the war on drugs creates ALL of the negative effects of drugs. drugs themselves create none.
Image
User avatar
Bandalero
Posts: 6219
Joined: 5/23/2002, 11:25 pm
Location: South Texas
Contact:

Post by Bandalero »

drug abuse killed him because it's drug abuse that is making the government see pot as illegal. the recreational use of pot is keeping pot out of the hospitals. and because it's out of the hospitals, this guy dies am i right? don't you get it? the public's habbit is costing me and you, it's killing people, and it's making someone else rich. you take away that habbit and that = no profit to the drug system and it rid's us of alot of heath care bills and taxes. let's not forget that it might save a few lives.

beer is something that takes a lot of materials to make, and the "art" of making moonshine in a bathtub is dying really fast. anyone can plant this shit anywhere they want to. if pot were legal you'd have the government supplying pot, and then you'd have the average joe supplying his own damn habbit. tell me how that is useful? all you need is a hoe some land and the ocasional rain shower. you think Joe is going to create jobs? He might get a wild hair up his ass and decide he can sell it and we would be in the same boat all over again.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.


Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
User avatar
mosaik
dictator
dictator
Posts: 1637
Joined: 3/16/2002, 2:09 am
Location: Edmonton
Contact:

Post by mosaik »

joe could grow his own supply but trust me, there would be companies making designer weed and they would employ tons of growers and chemists to perfect their formula.

you can count on it.
Image
User avatar
Bandalero
Posts: 6219
Joined: 5/23/2002, 11:25 pm
Location: South Texas
Contact:

Post by Bandalero »

let's see here:

spend 50 bucks on high quality designer weed? or
grow crap ass weed and only pay for seed?

if joe is a po' ass the crap weed is going to taste alot better to him then the designer weed. just because it's cheaper. :::another scenario:::

if joe's dad passed away and he left him 101 acres of land, he can get a government grant to buy a tractor and he can grow crap ass pot. the government would be kicking itself in the ass because they funded his tractor to grow, while it's the intention of the government to let certain companies grow weed for quality control.

that's just two scenarios. i'm sure there are alot more.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.


Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
User avatar
starvingeyes
Oskar Winner: 2007
Oskar Winner: 2007
Posts: 2009
Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
Location: california's not very far

Post by starvingeyes »

reno, you can plant carrots anywhere there is dirt too, and you don't see too many carrot growers going out of business.

besides, all of this is irrellevant. the point is, why do you believe it is the government's right to tell people what they can and cannot put into their own bodies? do you not remember the consequences of alcohol prohibition? the mafia. drug prohibition has led to violent drug cartels. if it were legal, it would be monitored by the market. there would be no need to shoot "rats" or rival dealers. you don't see budwiser guys shooting at miller lite guys, but in the 30's, rival liquour providers most definately shot at each other.

if you legalize it, the violence will go away. this is a fact.
Image
User avatar
Bandalero
Posts: 6219
Joined: 5/23/2002, 11:25 pm
Location: South Texas
Contact:

Post by Bandalero »

starving eyes wrote:reno, you can plant carrots anywhere there is dirt too, and you don't see too many carrot growers going out of business.

besides, all of this is irrellevant. the point is, why do you believe it is the government's right to tell people what they can and cannot put into their own bodies? do you not remember the consequences of alcohol prohibition? the mafia. drug prohibition has led to violent drug cartels. if it were legal, it would be monitored by the market. there would be no need to shoot "rats" or rival dealers. you don't see budwiser guys shooting at miller lite guys, but in the 30's, rival liquour providers most definately shot at each other.

if you legalize it, the violence will go away. this is a fact.


actually they would have if the government doesn't subsidize the market. drought, fire, flood, and foriegn competition, they all would break the average farmer, but if they put the seed in before March 15th, they are insured.

i remember prohibition, my uncle was a moonshine runner for the mob. the truth is that the demand for a drink is what caused the mafia. just as the demand for drugs has created the cartel. get rid of the demand and the cartel is no more. the monster you create is only as strong as you make it.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.


Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
User avatar
starvingeyes
Oskar Winner: 2007
Oskar Winner: 2007
Posts: 2009
Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
Location: california's not very far

Post by starvingeyes »

drought, fire, flood and foreign competition may very well break the "average farmer" but the guy growing carrots in his backyard does not.

as you pointed out, the demand for the drink is what created the mafia. when alcohol was legalized, the demand was supplied by legal, non violent means. the mafia disappeared.

the demand for drugs, in this case marijuana, is <b>never</b> going away, no matter how much propaganda the government spreads about it. people who have tried most narcotics know that their government is <b>lying to them</b> about the effects of these drugs. not to mention, some of these drugs are addictive.

therefore, the only way you can eliminate drug cartels and the violent crime which is associated with them is by ending the pointless and ineffective prohibition on the product that they sell.
Image
Post Reply