[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4671: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3815)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4673: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3815)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4674: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3815)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4675: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3815)
ClumsyMonkey.net • View topic - eyewitness: US troops part of vicious slaughter.

ClumsyMonkey.net

eyewitness: US troops part of vicious slaughter.

Serious discussion area.
You realize that sometimes you're not okay, you level off, you level off, you level off...

eyewitness: US troops part of vicious slaughter.

Postby starvingeyes » 3/28/2003, 8:55 am

One rule for them

Five PoWs are mistreated in Iraq and the US cries foul. What about Guantanamo Bay?

George Monbiot
Tuesday March 25, 2003
The Guardian

Suddenly, the government of the United States has discovered the virtues of international law. It may be waging an illegal war against a sovereign state; it may be seeking to destroy every treaty which impedes its attempts to run the world, but when five of its captured soldiers were paraded in front of the Iraqi television cameras on Sunday, Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, immediately complained that "it is against the Geneva convention to show photographs of prisoners of war in a manner that is humiliating for them".
He is, of course, quite right. Article 13 of the third convention, concerning the treatment of prisoners, insists that they "must at all times be protected... against insults and public curiosity". This may number among the less heinous of the possible infringements of the laws of war, but the conventions, ratified by Iraq in 1956, are non-negotiable. If you break them, you should expect to be prosecuted for war crimes.

This being so, Rumsfeld had better watch his back. For this enthusiastic convert to the cause of legal warfare is, as head of the defence department, responsible for a series of crimes sufficient, were he ever to be tried, to put him away for the rest of his natural life.

His prison camp in Guantanamo Bay, in Cuba, where 641 men (nine of whom are British citizens) are held, breaches no fewer than 15 articles of the third convention. The US government broke the first of these (article 13) as soon as the prisoners arrived, by displaying them, just as the Iraqis have done, on television. In this case, however, they were not encouraged to address the cameras. They were kneeling on the ground, hands tied behind their backs, wearing blacked-out goggles and earphones. In breach of article 18, they had been stripped of their own clothes and deprived of their possessions. They were then interned in a penitentiary (against article 22), where they were denied proper mess facilities (26), canteens (28), religious premises (34), opportunities for physical exercise (38), access to the text of the convention (41), freedom to write to their families (70 and 71) and parcels of food and books (72).

They were not "released and repatriated without delay after the cessation of active hostilities" (118), because, the US authorities say, their interrogation might, one day, reveal interesting information about al-Qaida. Article 17 rules that captives are obliged to give only their name, rank, number and date of birth. No "coercion may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever". In the hope of breaking them, however, the authorities have confined them to solitary cells and subjected them to what is now known as "torture lite": sleep deprivation and constant exposure to bright light. Unsurprisingly, several of the prisoners have sought to kill themselves, by smashing their heads against the walls or trying to slash their wrists with plastic cutlery.

The US government claims that these men are not subject to the Geneva conventions, as they are not "prisoners of war", but "unlawful combatants". The same claim could be made, with rather more justice, by the Iraqis holding the US soldiers who illegally invaded their country. But this redefinition is itself a breach of article 4 of the third convention, under which people detained as suspected members of a militia (the Taliban) or a volunteer corps (al-Qaida) must be regarded as prisoners of war.

Even if there is doubt about how such people should be classified, article 5 insists that they "shall enjoy the protection of the present convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal". But when, earlier this month, lawyers representing 16 of them demanded a court hearing, the US court of appeals ruled that as Guantanamo Bay is not sovereign US territory, the men have no constitutional rights. Many of these prisoners appear to have been working in Afghanistan as teachers, engineers or aid workers. If the US government either tried or released them, its embarrassing lack of evidence would be brought to light.

You would hesitate to describe these prisoners as lucky, unless you knew what had happened to some of the other men captured by the Americans and their allies in Afghanistan. On November 21 2001, around 8,000 Taliban soldiers and Pashtun civilians surrendered at Konduz to the Northern Alliance commander, General Abdul Rashid Dostum. Many of them have never been seen again.

As Jamie Doran's film Afghan Massacre: Convoy of Death records, some hundreds, possibly thousands, of them were loaded into container lorries at Qala-i-Zeini, near the town of Mazar-i-Sharif, on November 26 and 27. The doors were sealed and the lorries were left to stand in the sun for several days. At length, they departed for Sheberghan prison, 80 miles away. The prisoners, many of whom were dying of thirst and asphyxiation, started banging on the sides of the trucks. Dostum's men stopped the convoy and machine-gunned the containers. When they arrived at Sheberghan, most of the captives were dead.

The US special forces running the prison watched the bodies being unloaded. They instructed Dostum's men to "get rid of them before satellite pictures can be taken". Doran interviewed a Northern Alliance soldier guarding the prison. "I was a witness when an American soldier broke one prisoner's neck. The Americans did whatever they wanted. We had no power to stop them." Another soldier alleged: "They took the prisoners outside and beat them up, and then returned them to the prison. But sometimes they were never returned, and they disappeared."

Many of the survivors were loaded back in the containers with the corpses, then driven to a place in the desert called Dasht-i-Leili. In the presence of up to 40 US special forces, the living and the dead were dumped into ditches. Anyone who moved was shot. The German newspaper Die Zeit investigated the claims and concluded that: "No one doubted that the Americans had taken part. Even at higher levels there are no doubts on this issue." The US group Physicians for Human Rights visited the places identified by Doran's witnesses and found they "all... contained human remains consistent with their designation as possible grave sites".

It should not be necessary to point out that hospitality of this kind also contravenes the third Geneva convention, which prohibits "violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture", as well as extra-judicial execution. Donald Rumsfeld's department, assisted by a pliant media, has done all it can to suppress Jamie Doran's film, while General Dostum has begun to assassinate his witnesses.

It is not hard, therefore, to see why the US government fought first to prevent the establishment of the international criminal court, and then to ensure that its own citizens are not subject to its jurisdiction. The five soldiers dragged in front of the cameras yesterday should thank their lucky stars that they are prisoners not of the American forces fighting for civilisation, but of the "barbaric and inhuman" Iraqis.
Image
User avatar
starvingeyes
Oskar Winner: 2007
Oskar Winner: 2007
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
Location: california's not very far

Postby I AM ME » 3/28/2003, 6:07 pm

"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
User avatar
I AM ME
 
Posts: 5956
Joined: 3/13/2002, 9:09 am
Location: Manitoba

Postby Corey » 3/28/2003, 8:48 pm

<img src="http://www.clumsymonkey.net/phpBB2/download.php?id=4500">
#define QUESTION (bb || !bb) --william shakespeare
Corey
 
Posts: 2578
Joined: 3/19/2002, 10:25 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby I AM ME » 3/29/2003, 7:15 pm

"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
User avatar
I AM ME
 
Posts: 5956
Joined: 3/13/2002, 9:09 am
Location: Manitoba

Postby Neil » 3/30/2003, 9:07 am

Point #1: U.S. is a "super power".........its like the NBA all the sudden saying Michael Jordan sucks, won't happen.
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
User avatar
Neil
Oskar Winner: 2010
Oskar Winner: 2010
 
Posts: 8405
Joined: 9/27/2002, 8:26 am
Location: Minnesota

Postby mosaik » 4/1/2003, 10:04 am

whose defending saddam, corey?

this article is about afganhistan for god's sake. man will you PLEASE put down your flag and become a little bit more objective?

as an american, how the fuck can you stand for this shit being done in your name? how how how?
Image
User avatar
mosaik
dictator
dictator
 
Posts: 1637
Joined: 3/16/2002, 2:09 am
Location: Edmonton

Postby Bandalero » 4/1/2003, 11:56 am

well...first off ll these operations are classified and no one but the government knows what they do and why they do it. so when you stumble on an article about apparent classified stuff, i find it hard to believe. then here's another beef i got with your article. witnesses. why on god's green motha fucking earth would the government and the military invite witnesses into these very touchy sites, considering that they even exist? that's like that group your always talking about, the ones that want one global government, you say that that is what they want but yet, no one is allowed to these meetings. so how do you know that? what if they're actually getting together and talking about all the hoe's they have banged back in their day? the truth is you don't know and neither do i.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.


Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
User avatar
Bandalero
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: 5/23/2002, 11:25 pm
Location: South Texas

Postby Corey » 4/1/2003, 12:00 pm

<img src="http://www.clumsymonkey.net/phpBB2/download.php?id=4500">
#define QUESTION (bb || !bb) --william shakespeare
Corey
 
Posts: 2578
Joined: 3/19/2002, 10:25 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby starvingeyes » 4/1/2003, 12:13 pm

the witnesses were army troops from the northern alliance who were present.
Image
User avatar
starvingeyes
Oskar Winner: 2007
Oskar Winner: 2007
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
Location: california's not very far

Postby Bandalero » 4/1/2003, 3:09 pm

Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.


Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
User avatar
Bandalero
 
Posts: 6219
Joined: 5/23/2002, 11:25 pm
Location: South Texas

Postby I AM ME » 4/1/2003, 8:35 pm

meh there's still some pretty solid things in there, not to mention even if i wasn't against the war America are technically Illegal Invaders
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good

"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911

"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good

I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.

"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
User avatar
I AM ME
 
Posts: 5956
Joined: 3/13/2002, 9:09 am
Location: Manitoba

Postby Corey » 4/1/2003, 8:50 pm

<img src="http://www.clumsymonkey.net/phpBB2/download.php?id=4500">
#define QUESTION (bb || !bb) --william shakespeare
Corey
 
Posts: 2578
Joined: 3/19/2002, 10:25 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby Venom » 4/1/2003, 9:32 pm

User avatar
Venom
 
Posts: 678
Joined: 1/14/2003, 3:27 pm
Location: Reality....you should all try it sometime

Postby mosaik » 4/1/2003, 9:32 pm

Image
User avatar
mosaik
dictator
dictator
 
Posts: 1637
Joined: 3/16/2002, 2:09 am
Location: Edmonton

Postby Venom » 4/1/2003, 9:52 pm

what UN resolutions have we not upheld.....oh yeah.....all the OTHER resolutions having to do with Iraq.....yeah we FINALLY decided to uphold them. Thats why the UN is bunk now because they can't uphold thier resolutions together. Individual countries have to do it for them.
User avatar
Venom
 
Posts: 678
Joined: 1/14/2003, 3:27 pm
Location: Reality....you should all try it sometime

Postby mosaik » 4/1/2003, 9:54 pm

Yeah, but Venom, you're letting Israel get away with breaking a resolution right now.

and no resolution was passed actually sanctioning this invasion.
Image
User avatar
mosaik
dictator
dictator
 
Posts: 1637
Joined: 3/16/2002, 2:09 am
Location: Edmonton

Postby Venom » 4/1/2003, 10:10 pm

No one wasn't passed but it should have been. 1441 says there would be srious consequences if Iraq didn't UNCONDITIONALLY cooperate with everything that was asked of it. 1. They were proven to have left off weapons that they were known to have 2. they at first didn't allow U2 flights 3. they restricted access to scientists and wouldn't allow them to be interviewed outside the country.........shall I go on??

Fact of the matter is they weren't complying and 1441 says that if they don't then there would be "serious consequences".

User avatar
Venom
 
Posts: 678
Joined: 1/14/2003, 3:27 pm
Location: Reality....you should all try it sometime

Postby starvingeyes » 4/2/2003, 8:48 am

Image
User avatar
starvingeyes
Oskar Winner: 2007
Oskar Winner: 2007
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
Location: california's not very far

Postby Corey » 4/2/2003, 11:12 am

<img src="http://www.clumsymonkey.net/phpBB2/download.php?id=4500">
#define QUESTION (bb || !bb) --william shakespeare
Corey
 
Posts: 2578
Joined: 3/19/2002, 10:25 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby starvingeyes » 4/2/2003, 1:04 pm

Image
User avatar
starvingeyes
Oskar Winner: 2007
Oskar Winner: 2007
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
Location: california's not very far

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Delete all board cookies • All times are UTC - 6 hours • PHPBB Powered

Serving Our Lady Peace fans since 2002. Oskar Twitch thanks you for tasting the monkey brains.