Bush's latest address (Mar 17, 8:00pm EST)

areusad831 · Post by **areusad831** » 3/17/2003, 8:45 pm

i commend you james for being able to read that.

If anyone wanted to control the world it was Napolean, Hitler was a bit different.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/17/2003, 8:56 pm

chrisaddam hussein wrote:corey - you really think the us is going to let iraq self govern? really?

yes.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/17/2003, 8:58 pm

Mister Chainsaw wrote:
Capo wrote:You assume he knows, he did give Saddam 48 hours now...

Hey buddy, think about this. Look at the Gulf War back in 1991. Did Saddam back down from war then? Why would he do it now?

Yes. He's backed down every time the US has come at him. The same will happen again. He's a big pansy really.

Post by **faninor** » 3/17/2003, 10:12 pm

I'm not so sure Saddam will back down this time. Ever since he was given the options of compliance or war, this could have been used as an opportunity for him to achieve a twisted goal of lowering the world's opinion of America. His are going to require an appropriate US response, and certainly that will have an impact in the world's opinion of the US. If Saddam tries to make it as messy as possible, it might reflect badly on the US. He's not getting any prizes for backing down. Don't you think he might be twisted enough to make this bloodier than it has to be to try to get more people to hate America? Just like human shields.

lukin · Post by **lukin** » 3/17/2003, 10:13 pm

thirdhour · Post by **thirdhour** » 3/17/2003, 11:00 pm

I never said one word against Americans. All I said is that I'm glad that Canada is not involved. What's wrong with saying that?

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/18/2003, 12:24 am

ok i'm apologizing in advance for my behavoir over the next couple of days because i am a wreck and i am only going to get worse. Over the past few months of debate i've kind of made friends with Corey and Reno and I don't want you guys to end up hating me after this, but i can't handle it anymore.

corey you use the word self-govern. that's not even happening in the usa right now, what in gods holy name gives you the impression that self-government would be a viable option in iraq?

self-government is the individual running his own life. we all know that for GWB's agenda to work out that will never happen, not in iraq or anywhere. and that is because the man hates freedom.

"god bless america"

well mr bush. when the devil tempted Christ he offered him the power to rule over all the nations in the world and the Lord said no. God is not in your corner and he never has been.

Saddam Hussein is not a coward. He will not flee. This is his last hurrah.

it's the fucking nazi's all over again, and there's no heros in sight. what's more, i am shocked by how many of you are STILL PLUGGED IN after witnessing this mother fucker go before the world and pull his pants down and wave his cock at us laughing "HAHA you can't stop me!"

because we can't stop him and he knows it. what's more, most of you americans don't want to. so the precedent has been set. i'm telling you all right now there's going to be more wars. there's going to be more killing. as soon as everybody in iraq is dead and the nazis have their flag flying over arab bodies like in capos sick fucking avatar the war machine will move on to some other poor islamic nation and wipe them off the map.

whose going to say no? Not you, Corey, and you're a smart guy. If they turned their bombs on canada tommorow you'd be okay with it.

there's nothing they can do to lose your trust. there's no atrocity they can commit to shake your faith in them. and there's nothing i can say to wake you up.

but i'm telling you now that americans have seen enough, they've heard enough of the truth that they should fucking know better. they know what's going to happen and they don't care, and that willful non-thinking voids your innocence.

there's blood on all your fucking hands. and the fact that you can sleep with that knowlegdge makes my stomach turn. that's what's been bothering me the last couple of days. It's not a case of ignorance and apathy where you don't know what's going on and you don't care. you are ALL aware of the cost of this conflict, and you are ALL aware of the fact that future conflicts will follow. and none of you give a fuck. not enough of you anyway.

well tonight i'm praying for saddam. i'm praying for the arabs. but i'm not praying for america.

america can go straight to hell.

call me andrew · Post by **call me andrew** » 3/18/2003, 6:32 am

*tear*

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 3/18/2003, 6:43 am

Capo: Before you make big arguments, you should really make sure you know something about what you're talking about (ie No Italy in WWII). Canada was a huge part in the success of WWII. Ever heard of Juno Beach (or, for that matter, the Juno awards)? How about the abundance of battles in which Canadian troops went in alone and against all odds came out on top?

Back to the present... War is now inevitable. There's a pretty good chance that it will ensue with bombings of Iraq and possibly a few "terrorist" attacks on the US (although, since it's a war, they are no longer terrorist attacks. if that was the case, Bush would be a terrorist). I don't think we'll see a war like the World Wars. It's so much easier and cost efficient to bomb someone to death than to go in shooting. Plus, to have another WW, more major powers would need to be involved. The countries opposing Bush's actions aren't going to be fighting for Iraq, so they are officially neutral.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/18/2003, 7:44 am

Doug,

as soon as the US bombs Canada, I'll stand by your side and take the government down.

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 3/18/2003, 8:32 am

i heard on the news last night that they are planning an indefinate occupation of iraq after the war.

so much for democracy.

starseed_10 · Post by **starseed_10** » 3/18/2003, 8:59 am

Three years ago, in August 1999, UNICEF did a study that concluded that the sanctions had cost the lives of half a million Iraqi children under 5 years old.[43] They didn’t count 7-year-olds, or 9-year-olds, or people suffering from heart disease, or diabetes, or old folks who fall and break their hip. Just 5-year-olds and under. Half a million children dead from the US-led sanctions. On September 11, 2001, terrorists attacked my city and our country in a brutally criminal and heartless act, killing nearly 3,000 Americans and foreign visitors. Effectively, the US-led sanctions regime takes that same number of toddlers, and kills them – and has done so every three weeks in Iraq for the past twelve years...Who is terrorizing whom?

and America are the good guys... :neutral:

i dont know how valuable the source is, but here's more:
http://www.nonviolence.org/vitw/pages/why_invade_iraq.html

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/18/2003, 9:43 am

Starseed:

And of all the accusations hurled against the West in its treatment of Iraq, the most damning is the human cost of sanctions. According to many peace groups, humanitarian organizations and politicians, sanctions have killed 500,000 Iraqi children. The total death toll from sanctions amounts to a million and a half innocent people.

Are these figures credible?

Only if you believe Saddam Hussein.

The truth is that these numbers come straight from Iraq's mighty propaganda factory. What gives them credibility is that they were endorsed in a 1999 report by Unicef. What's not so well-known is that the report was co-authored by the Iraqi health ministry, and all the statistics were supplied by the Iraqi government.

The first person to debunk these numbers was an Iraq expert named Amatzia Baram. In a lengthy analysis in The Middle East Journal, he revealed that there was no actual body count. Despite claims that 4,000 or 5,000 or 7,561 children were dying every month from sanctions, Iraqi officials simply made the numbers up. They did it by subtracting the population in 1997 from what they thought the population should have been, and blamed sanctions for the difference. Mr. Baram reached a different conclusion: "Most of the persons missing in 1997 according to the Iraqi claim were never born."

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 3/18/2003, 10:09 am

so...even if that was true (and corey proved that it's not) that's sadamns fault for those sanctions. He's the one not following the worlds rules and regulations of him and his country. what would you think best for punishment...war? you certainly don't agree with that now do you? sanctions? you think that US is killing Iraqi people in the form of sanctions....so then what?

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/18/2003, 10:22 am

Corey, how do you know? What if they painted a pretty picture for you about how canada has been hiding weapons of mass destruction in the Canadian shield for the last decade.

the canadian pm has been known to make anti-american remarks. so have members of his cabinet. and the 9/11 heroes/terrorists came through the canadian border.

we're a rogue state. better invade. how can i believe that you'd stand up to them then when you won't now?

reno the reason so many were against the sanctions is because the only people the sanctions punished were the iraqi children. saddam you'll notice was still well fed and medicated during the period of sanction.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 3/18/2003, 10:41 am

food, medicine, and humanitarian aid....it was sent to Iraq...where is it? certainly the children don't have it now do they? there is medicine on the shelves in hospitals in Iraq, but when the camera's are rolling, they would rather show empty shelves, it makes for better ratings on the TV. It paints the picture that it's not enough to just send food, and it makes the sanctions look bad. but according to you sanctions don't work, what do you do with Sadamn now? WAR?

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/18/2003, 10:49 am

reno i have to call bullshit.

i need evidence that they sent food, aid, etc. you would certainly expect the same from me if i were making claims to the opposite effect.

what do you do with saddam? leave him alone.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 3/18/2003, 11:00 am

http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/factsheet.htm

that's right you leave him alone and let him fuck up everything else for these Iraqi People. that's right by leaving him alone we would have blood on our hands becasue we didn't stop this guy fron sending Iraq down the shitter. we leave him alone and we would have never gotten him to accept the oil for food program, that led to HIM killing his own people by not accepting the terms handed to him. smooth move bro. [/quote]

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/18/2003, 11:05 am

that source is from the american government.

i trust them about as much as i do the iraqi government. most of it is probably lies.

we leave him alone and we would have never gotten him to accept the oil for food program, that led to HIM killing his own people by not accepting the terms handed to him

i love this quote from you reno. you're basically saying "Saddam wouldn't accept our grossly unfair deal and that makes him a murderer!"

no, sorry, it doesn't. and the bloods not on your hands if Saddam kills the iraqis, it's on his. it's on yours because it's your country that's doing the killing.

your attitude towards the iraqi civilians is typically amerikan. what makes you think they're not capable of overthrowing their own ruler if he's as bad as you say?

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 3/18/2003, 11:19 am

oh, but you'll believe their accusations on state runned television news? the reason that i can trust that is because every and anything the US government does is public property, as an American you have a right to that information and they cannot legally hide it from you.

"Saddam wouldn't accept our grossly unfair deal and that makes him a murderer!"

no, sorry, it doesn't. and the bloods not on your hands if Saddam kills the iraqis, it's on his. it's on yours because it's your country that's doing the killing.

your attitude towards the iraqi civilians is typically amerikan. what makes you think they're not capable of overthrowing their own ruler if he's as bad as you say?

when your people are dying and desperate, you take what you can get, and then you work on making the situation better, for 5 years he refused and killed his own people by his action. we were willing to hand those dying the food and medicine they needed but out of spite he refused thus killing them. and those sanctions can be lifted when he complies. they had a kick ass economy before this mother fucker showed up. Iraqis don't need him, and the last people who tried to overthrow him are living in a hell hole called Saddam City. that in itself proves that they can't get rid of him. because if people believe they are living hapily then they'll be happy. and that's what state runned media in that country is doing to them. during the summit, this media was showing soap operas and regular tv programming, not letting them know that their situation is being told to the rest of the world. they are making them forget about the good olde days and making them happy with their current situation. and it's sad that they are allowing this man to do so.