Rock Sound Article... Raine Discusses Mike

toojaded · Post by **toojaded** » 10/29/2002, 11:06 pm

I've always thought that Raine was a bit of a dick. To have Mike there from teh beginning and have such an influence on whoe they were in the "glory days" and then to practically come right out and say that he sucked, is well, pretty assholish. But I like to stay away from OLP - related arguments on here... so here I go creep away.

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 10/30/2002, 12:06 am

Have you guys not heard or seen any of the clumsy/naveed era stuff? live he was alot better then, and Naveed and Clumsy the 2 albums he had the most influence in were in my oppion the best. I think if he was getting boring that was because he wasn't feeling the music anymore, his guitar playing on their naveed tours was never in doubt. Without out Mike there would be no OLP, so to shit on him like that is just plain disrespectful, if your one of the ppl like me that loved the more gritty olp then you can see exactly what changed when Raine became more power crazed (post clumsy era's). If you listen to all the album his guitar playing never became softer sounding, it could still be gritty songs Raine just changed his singing of them. Post Clumsy albums had many apon many strokes of pure genius but most of the album lacked that gritty aggressive sound i loved. Mike created that band, had magor influence in all of OLP's glory days, and had the only real connection with the fans, for Raine to make him sound like he hindered the band in anyway is bullshit. Steve may be a better guitar player, and does fit in better with the band, but no one should ever lesson what Mike brought to that band. And as for Mikes guitar skills, i love raine for his vocals as do all of us, but that was the thing that turned ppl off from olp not mikes bad guitar skills, ask anyone why they don't like olp, i bet it's Raine. Well i just ranted the fuck outa this thread so i'm going to go. Cheers

lukin · Post by **lukin** » 10/30/2002, 12:19 am

Ok, let me add a little bit to this. I can't help but notice everytime someome questions Mikes guitar capabilities the Hope solo always comes up. Thats ONE solo and we are always making references to it. A great guitar player has great solos all the time, its just not this one time he pulled a great one off and we can talk about it forever.
If anyone listens to live Pearl Jam you'll know what I mean. Mike Mcready has so many solos each time they play and are awesome. And there are plenty of other capable guitarists who do it all the time.

I think Raine was basically saying, Mike can do a lot of great things..but the guitar isn't his greatest.

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 10/30/2002, 8:35 am

yeah well my earlier comments still hold fast for me, Naveed and Clumsy held something for me, Gravity was an attempt at going back to Naveed but instead it just became commercial and simple.

OLPGoose · Post by **OLPGoose** » 10/30/2002, 12:05 pm

I was in no way saying he's infallible---he's human like the rest of us. I just have trouble believeing that he owuld say that. You know, let me give you an example: if you say "i got this really cool OLP poster" and i respond with "wow"---unless you were THERE, you wont be able to tell whether i was excited for you or i was being sarcastic. The same way, suppose Raine DID say that, it was probably a very different version. they've said before about how they've been misquoted so many times. The way it ocmes off in the article, yeah, it was a pretty shitty thing to say. But who's to say thats how he said it. I just think you should give people the benefit of the doubt...especially since in every other article, he's never said anything like that. I don't think he would just come out and say something like that out of no where. ESPECIALLY when he knows the poeple buying the records love mike!!!

committed · Post by **committed** » 10/30/2002, 12:13 pm

so mike isn't a metal head shredder?

listen to his intro to car crash.

he can do great things with a guitar.

Endymion · Post by **Endymion** » 10/30/2002, 1:45 pm

Personally Steve bores me. Great technique doesn't make beautiful music.

Dabekk · Post by **Dabekk** » 10/30/2002, 2:47 pm

I think something that we can agree on is that mike had some talents that steve doesn't, and steve has some talents that mike didn't.

What would be best is a mixture of the two. We'll called him Stike Murner, or Meven Tazer. :mrgreen:

Susan · Post by **Susan** » 10/30/2002, 3:12 pm

It can be a freaky, polyphonic, super-mutant guitarist. With four arms.

Naveed16 · Post by **Naveed16** » 10/30/2002, 3:22 pm

lukin wrote:Ok, let me add a little bit to this. I can't help but notice everytime someome questions Mikes guitar capabilities the Hope solo always comes up. Thats ONE solo and we are always making references to it. A great guitar player has great solos all the time, its just not this one time he pulled a great one off and we can talk about it forever.
If anyone listens to live Pearl Jam you'll know what I mean. Mike Mcready has so many solos each time they play and are awesome. And there are plenty of other capable guitarists who do it all the time.

I think Raine was basically saying, Mike can do a lot of great things..but the guitar isn't his greatest.

About the Hope solo:everybody's making reference to it because it's the most popular live solo he has. I've seen olp live 13 times, 14 this friday, and 7 of the times were with Mike. MIke is a hell of a player live, he's not bad at all...everybody can bitch about how he wasn't as "rocking" live or whatever, but after clumsy and before gravity (i.e. SM and Happiness) they weren't really rock. There songs weren't guitar influenced, it was more of a whole band effort. Now, gravity is all about the guitars, and all of these people seeing steve obviously think he's better. He MAY be better, but you have to understand, the bands whole style has changed. This is going to take to long to explain to some, so basically, they both rock my socks, and Raine isn't perfect, he's human, forgive him if he said some harsh things while he was pissed.

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 10/30/2002, 3:48 pm

what about the starseed intro? that's one of the most beloved guitar lines ever written.

it takes balls and alot of creativity to stray away from the usual "screaming gutiar/power chord" m.o. mike turner's playing was ambient and beatiful. taking a less significant role in the music does not make the player any worse.

i'm not saying he's the greatest guitar player alive, but he was writing and playing stuff that was totally unique to him and gave the band a great feel.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » 10/30/2002, 3:54 pm

Naveed16 wrote:MIke is a hell of a player live, he's not bad at all...everybody can bitch about how he wasn't as "rocking" live or whatever, but after clumsy and before gravity (i.e. SM and Happiness) they weren't really rock. There songs weren't guitar influenced, it was more of a whole band effort.

How are those albums not rock? Listen in. Guitar riffs are just as present on those two records as any other, the difference is that they articulate, and not just the senseless reaming of power cords song after song.

Naveed16 wrote:...it was more of a whole band effort.

Isn't every record a whole band effort?

StarCrash · Post by **StarCrash** » 10/30/2002, 5:16 pm

I think big guitar solos are boring and overused, it was the ambience and passion that really drew me to Clumsy and made the band magical in some sense.

The reason they didn't need a better guitar player is because Raine was hugely influenced by U2... The Edge doesn't do a great deal (solo wise), he solos on 1 string in places, but it has tons of delay and ambience to it.

If you want to hear Mike soloing hard... check out any bootlegs of shows from 95.

UltraViolet · Post by **UltraViolet** » 10/30/2002, 5:25 pm

I can say that the whole band feel this way not just Raine. so really I think it is time to stop bashing him.
I am not saying this because of how I feel, but because when I first saw the band this year I sort of spoke to them( except Raine that is) and they all pretty much are happy with the decision they made. I find it hard to believe that Raine can control Duncan and Jeremy's thoughts.

Endymion · Post by **Endymion** » 10/30/2002, 5:30 pm

It's not the decision that I have a problem with, since Mike wanted to leave as much as they wanted to kick him out, I'm sure. It's the fact that Raine's a prick and that sort of thing has a tendency to disillusion a fan.

Naveed16 · Post by **Naveed16** » 10/30/2002, 5:36 pm

su7an wrote:
Naveed16 wrote:MIke is a hell of a player live, he's not bad at all...everybody can bitch about how he wasn't as "rocking" live or whatever, but after clumsy and before gravity (i.e. SM and Happiness) they weren't really rock. There songs weren't guitar influenced, it was more of a whole band effort.

How are those albums not rock? Listen in. Guitar riffs are just as present on those two records as any other, the difference is that they articulate, and not just the senseless reaming of power cords song after song.

Naveed16 wrote:...it was more of a whole band effort.

Isn't every record a whole band effort?

I never said they weren't rock, they weren't REALLY rock...are they rock in general, yes. But even Raine said that with Gravity, they wanted straight up rock. The first 4 albums don't sound like most rock does....I don't even like categorizing the band. I should have been more specific with the guitar comments...the guitars on SM and Happiness don't sound anything like Naveed or Clumsy...those two albums have a much more layered sound than the first two. They are present yes, but I guess what I'm saying is the music isn't based around just the guitar. Production/Mixing wise, those two albums sound different to me.
Yes every record is a whole band effort, what I was getting at is that on Clumsy and Spiritual Machines, all of the instruments are in the spotlight. The first four records are all about texture, and Gravity is much more simple. It's still good, and I love it, but it's different nonetheless. On Gravity, the bass and drums are simple compared to the 4 preceding albums, that's what I meant by guitar influenced. It's just something I'M getting at as a musician.

Post by **faninor** » 10/30/2002, 7:40 pm

lukin wrote:Ok, let me add a little bit to this. I can't help but notice everytime someome questions Mikes guitar capabilities the Hope solo always comes up. Thats ONE solo and we are always making references to it. A great guitar player has great solos all the time, its just not this one time he pulled a great one off and we can talk about it forever.

Sometimes Mike did nice live solos when they played Neon Crossing back in 1995. If Steve stops doing solos after this year and pretty much sticks to doing things as they're played on the album, I would probably be a little bit disappointed with their concerts. I think concerts are more unique, interesting, and fun when you get a few things that sound different than they do on the albums.

Naveed16 · Post by **Naveed16** » 10/30/2002, 8:24 pm

That's another thing about Mike....although he's not as good of a soloist as Steve, the songs DID sound different live...listen to Automatic Flowers live 10/15/99....pretty much the same, but they improv to an extent. And you have to think that these so called IMPROVS maybe aren't even truly improvised...maybe they just rehearse playing the songs differently...many bands do that.

I AM ME · Post by **I AM ME** » 10/30/2002, 11:19 pm

hate to sound like i'm bashing steve, because he IS the right guitarist for the CURRENT OLP, and i'm am obsessed with all the new live bootlegs, but remember ppl, so far he's just doing Remix's of guitar mike wrote, coming from and Ameteur guitarist, i can tell you that IMO taking an already written song and making it sound different or better is easier than making your own badass song, all he's doing is spicing up mikes old stuff.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 10/30/2002, 11:31 pm

^ Don't say anything until Steve has a chance to go into the studio with the band, ok? You can't criticize Steve for only making Mike's music sound better, when Steve hasn't gotten a chance to go in a studio and make a 10-11 song cd. Yeah, when the next cd comes out, and there's no technical guitar work on it, then you can say something, but until then, you can't say anything about Steve not being able to write a badass song.

And by the way, I forgot who said this, but it was said before, would you people bitch about Duncan playing Chris' previous work?