ClumsyMonkey.net

http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson200309260839.asp


This guys knows whats goin on. Reading one of his books now and hes right on!!

wow, venom, he's almost as self-absorbed as you are.

for a guy whose so caught up in "hard facts", he provides scarce evidence for his arguments and no rational basis for anything he says.

get over yourselves. i have news for you. the american empire is going the way of the roman one. you are going to lose legitimacy. mr. hanson says "Once the world sobers up and the frenzy subsides, nations will still want someone to be worried about Iran and North Korea."

maybe. but that "someone" will not be the united states. you are becoming irrelevant right before our eyes.

"Once the world sobers up and the frenzy subsides, nations will still want someone to be worried about Iran and North Korea."

maybe. but that "someone" will not be the united states

No shit! Thats what hes saying. Some are against us today, but when N. Korea and Iran step up thier nuclear goals these SAME countries will come running to US to do something about it, because they are are too spineless to do it themselves. They are hypocrites and the US should have no place for "allies" like them. However we will be the ones to do something because it needs to be done and no one else will.

You are a fool, Venom, and that's what makes you so dangerous

I'm the fool? The fools are the ones who think the terrorists will just stop killing if left alone. The fools are the ones who believe Iraq and Afghanistan are better off with tyranical leaders who opress and kill thousands of thier own citizens, than being freed by the US and her allies. The latest Gallup poll proves it. 2/3 of Iraqi's are thrilled that the US came and freed them. Women are actually considered real people in Afghanistan. I guess your definition of a fool is one who doesn't put up with tyrants and mass murderers. Now I'm SURE you will say that the US killed mass numbers of civilians in both wars. Yes some civilians died, but not all can be blamed on US bomb. Some are the result of their governments misguided weapons. Even the Iraqis and Taliban knew the US had great respect for innocents. Thats why they placed their military assets next to mosques, hospitals, and schools. If they can see how humane the US is why can't you??? You are in fact the fool. Terrorist aren't gonna just stop. They need to BE stopped! I would love to have seen you live under the Taliban or Saddam, then we'd see what your opinion was. You claim to stand for all humanity, yet you would rather woman be opressed under tyranical autocrats. YOU should be ashamed of yourself!

The reason terrorists exist is because there is something drastically wrong with their lives that they feel powerless to change except through violence. Clearly, this is seldom effective, but my point is that "stopping" them by bombing the shit out of everything just makes these peoples' situation WORSE, which leads to MORE terrorists. I don't understand why people have such a problem with this concept!

Well if that was the case then they should bomb the hell out of thier own people and governments rather than the US's. Makes sense doesn't it?? So in essence what you said holds no water until I see the terrorists bombing the Saudi royal family, etc. The terrorists supported the oppressive regimes of the Taliban and Saddam. These people have no morals and no place in government. So what ur saying is that whats wrong in thier lives is that they have to be oppressive to be happy. That doesn't float. There is this thing called human rights that they are against. How are human rights infringing on thier happiness??? You have a very twisted view on what goes on and what the terrorists feel.

While my information on this subject is vey limited, here's what I think. Take this as basically me thinking out loud.

The average people in the middle east are damn poor. Of course, they'd be pissed off about it. Wouldn't you be? The governments of whatever countries tell the people it's the west's fault. Look at the west! They're all rich and we're not. They use religious beliefs and whatnot, convincing the people that the west (mainly America) is the 'great Satan' or whatever they call it. Now the people have someone to be pissed off at. They're probably assured that if they get back at the U.S, then everything's going to be golden, right? That's how you get your terrorists. The U.S bombing the countries adds fuel to the fire, and BOOM, we have a very volatile situation here.

Of course, I could be and probably am wrong, but it's worht a shot...

ihatethunderbay wrote:The average people in the middle east are damn poor. Of course, they'd be pissed off about it. Wouldn't you be? The governments of whatever countries tell the people it's the west's fault. Look at the west! They're all rich and we're not. They use religious beliefs and whatnot, convincing the people that the west (mainly America) is the 'great Satan' or whatever they call it. Now the people have someone to be pissed off at. They're probably assured that if they get back at the U.S, then everything's going to be golden, right? That's how you get your terrorists. The U.S bombing the countries adds fuel to the fire, and BOOM, we have a very volatile situation here.

You are exactly right. All the war is creating more anti-Americanism throughout the world.

Thank you. That is what I meant.

so we should just let them get thier frustrations out by killing thousands of Westerners and do nothing about it right?? Damn mindless pacifists ur gonna allow the world to be run by tyrants.

How about being proactive and finding a solution to the problems that are spawning this violence instead of being reactive and just fanning the flames with MORE violence?

You know Venom, you speak as if 9/11 happened 7 times already. One time thing. That is it. Only once. That is how many times it will happen forever. One time.

very true alan, besides, maybe we should give them some reasons to like us weterners instead of pushing ourselves on them, and bombing the crap out of them, not to mention playing bully and threatening other countries, also people like to throw around the word "hypocrit" tell me, would america looking to disarm nuclear programs in foreign countries fit into that catagory?

well said

You know Venom, you speak as if 9/11 happened 7 times already. One time thing. That is it. Only once. That is how many times it will happen forever. One time.

USS Cole, '93 bombing of World Trade Center, Bombing of US embassy in Kenya, Bombing of US embassy in Tanzania, Bombing of US barracks in Saudi Arabia, Bombing of UN in Iraq, Bali Bombing, etc, etc. Doesn't sound like one time to me.

very true alan, besides, maybe we should give them some reasons to like us weterners instead of pushing ourselves on them, and bombing the crap out of them, not to mention playing bully and threatening other countries, also people like to throw around the word "hypocrit" tell me, would america looking to disarm nuclear programs in foreign countries fit into that catagory?

#1. The US and Russia are the ONLY countries destryoing thier nuclear weapons while other are creating them. How does that make us hypocrites??

#2. These other countries are making them AFTER an international ban on the proliferation of nuclear weapons was signed by these very same countries.

Think before you speak. If we were still building nukes then you could call us hypocrites, but in fact its the exact opposite.

How about being proactive and finding a solution to the problems that are spawning this violence instead of being reactive and just fanning the flames with MORE violence?

And what solutions do you suggest?? You see to think you know what makes these terrorist tick. Should we just let them eradicate the people of Israel? That sound like a plan to you? I mean the Jews' lives aren't as important as the feelings of the Muslims right? Actaully maybe if we just stood back they'd kill themselves off. America has saved more Muslims than have their own kind. (Kosovo) The fact is America has tried. The roadmap to peace that AMERICA drew up was working find UNTIL the Arabs bombed Israeli neighborhoods again. THEY DON'T WANT PEACE!!! Can't you see that. They want the Israeli's out of land that is rightfully theres. Like I said America has saved millions of Muslims and Arabs. If we wanted to kill them all like you think we would have let the Serbs have at it. It was the US who wanted to save them. The UN didn't wanna step in!! We had to convince them too. We saved the Afghans from the Soviets in the 80's. You think its so easy to just appease them don't you. You're the typical sympathizer! You know nothing about history or what is going on. You just see war as wrong. I feel very sorry for people like you. You get taken advantage of a lot and don't even see it.

actually venom the us is researching the use of how to make mini-nukes as we speak, not to mention they have the largest arsenal in the world. They also declined Russia's offer to completely disarm and destroy all nukes when they had the chance. I would still consider any nation devolping and owning more nukes then every other country (excluding russia) combined, a hypocrit. If you want someone to stop hating you is beating the shit out of them and killing there dad a good way to earn there respect and love?

If you want someone to stop hating you is beating the shit out of them and killing there dad a good way to earn there respect and love?

I would say the same to Osama and Friends! Think before you post.

oh and to your comment on destroying all nukes.....why in the bloody hell would the worlds only superpower destroy ALL of thier nukes knowing that other countries are developing them and unstable countries like Pakistan have them. DUH! Why don't we all just slit our throats now and get it over with?!