ClumsyMonkey.net

I saw this article title on yahoo and decided to read it. It mentioned Ray Kurzweil so i thought that some of you might be interested in it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/krwashbureau/20 ... /_sci_ai_1

I highly doubt computers will ever become "self aware." As John Searle, A professor of the mind at Berkley said, " You can expand the power all you want, hooking up as many computers as you think you need, and they still won't be concious because all they do is shuffle symbols."

social interaction is needed to develop a sense of self.

i did learn something in sociology today! :O

Ooooh Kurzweil has a new boook...I wonder why I didn't know this before...hmm

Thanks for the link. It was really interesting. But I also don't really think computers would really become self aware, but I would agree that we humans are becoming a bit dependant on them. Computers, I mean.
Ha, a bit? Yeah.
*shrug*

_old_lady_peace wrote:
but I would agree that we humans are becoming a bit dependant on them. Computers, I mean.
Ha, a bit? Yeah.
*shrug*

Or maybe even a byte? Huh? Huh? Get it!?

Hahahahahahaahahahaahahaha

That's so lame. And so great.

Joe Cooler wrote:I highly doubt computers will ever become "self aware." As John Searle, A professor of the mind at Berkley said, " You can expand the power all you want, hooking up as many computers as you think you need, and they still won't be concious because all they do is shuffle symbols."

technically all we are is firing neurons. It could even be said that all we are doing is following learned criteria and patterns

I AM ME wrote:

Joe Cooler wrote:I highly doubt computers will ever become "self aware." As John Searle, A professor of the mind at Berkley said, " You can expand the power all you want, hooking up as many computers as you think you need, and they still won't be concious because all they do is shuffle symbols."

technically all we are is firing neurons. It could even be said that all we are doing is following learned criteria and patterns

I knew someone would mention that. I'd argue that the human brain is far more than "a computer made of meat" though. In fact many scientists today will say that they are convinced that conciousness cannot be explained using physics of chemistry. These scientists would argue that the "mind" and brain are disctinct from one another while clearly interacting at the same time.

mmmm brains...

I don't fully believe that that's all we are either, don't get me wrong. But the fact that we are so close in design to modern computers, does lead you to believe that thinking machines could be made. And if emotions are being artificially created in a humans mind, then are they any more real then those artificially created in a futuristically advanced computer's "mind". If we cannot describe or define the soul, then how can we say that the construct does not have a real perosnality? What if all things have souls, as some religions believe, and by giving a computer this technology, we allow it to express itself. I believe to say, either that true AI is either impossible, or fully achievable, is a showing of arrogance and naivness. Many people have called tings impossible, and been embarrassed later, sometimes in their own lifetime.

I believe all of this. one time i was racing a machine, with like, a twenty second head start, and it gained on me until it passed me and won

I AM ME wrote:I don't fully believe that that's all we are either, don't get me wrong. But the fact that we are so close in design to modern computers, does lead you to believe that thinking machines could be made.

There is quite a difference between a computer that becomes self aware by itself and a computer that becomes self aware because it was programmed to.

butif it is programmed to be self-aware, and then replicates itself, it's copies would also be self-aware. I do not see a difference between a computer being programed to be self aware, and us developing awareness in the womb

If you believe in evolution then you believe that at some point we became self aware without the input of an intelligent source. Thus there is a huge difference between programing self awareness into a computer and a computer arriving at that point by itself.

fuck the computers!

Chanandler Bong wrote:fuck the computers!

you sure you wanna say that? I mean when they take over they're gonna hunt you down!

Joe Cooler wrote:If you believe in evolution then you believe that at some point we became self aware without the input of an intelligent source. Thus there is a huge difference between programing self awareness into a computer and a computer arriving at that point by itself.

I agree with what you're saying in a way. I'm not passionate about the issue or anything, i just find the debate intresting.

Those that believe in the Christan god, in many cases would agree that God did, in a way, program us. Even for the majority of teh rest of us, that believe in evolution, i would still say that if the awarness is true, then what does it matter what the emansof getting to that destination is? Techincally our genes were programed by the cells that gave birth to them, all we're doing is replicating a code, just as computers could just as easily do once the original was made.

Joe Cooler wrote:

I AM ME wrote:I don't fully believe that that's all we are either, don't get me wrong. But the fact that we are so close in design to modern computers, does lead you to believe that thinking machines could be made.

There is quite a difference between a computer that becomes self aware by itself and a computer that becomes self aware because it was programmed to.

do our genes not 'program' us to do so? almost everybody develops in much the same way, using the genes they were born with and the nurture they recieve to turn into the self-aware humans we all are. without our dna telling us certain things, that could not be possible.

i don't believe human 'souls' exist outside of us being natural and sociological beings. that being said, emotions are still true and important, they just are something we create/are created and are very important in our lives. i put a high value on human life, but i don't romanticize it.

If we follow the theory of evolution then we assume that DNA came into being through nature and nature alone and not through the input of an intelligent mind. Thus we as humans became self aware without any intelligent input.

If computers ever became self aware it would be because we installed or created the necessary software for them to do so.

Yeah, ok, we are completely different beings than computers. We are organic creatures, they must be programed, I completely agree with this.

I guess I was looking at it in a different way. If we're simply talking about HOW self-awareness occurs, then no, computers couldn't become us. Computers never came from nature so they have no possiblity of getting things that do come from nature (natural self-awareness), but my point was just that humans in some ways are just as mechanical as computers, ours is just natural.