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Kansas beware...

Posted: 6/17/2005, 1:38 am
by Bandalero
Legal Woes May Shut Down Kansas Schools

By JOHN HANNA, Associated Press Writer Thu Jun 16, 3:32 PM ET

TOPEKA, Kan. - Still smarting from a fight over evolution, Kansas schools now face an almost unthinkable possibility: They might not reopen in the fall because of a political and legal battle over education funding.
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The Kansas Supreme Court has ordered legislators to provide millions more in aid to schools by July 1. Gov. Kathleen Sebelius has called a special legislative session for June 22 to act on the order.

Some Republicans who control the Legislature want to defy the court, arguing it cannot tell them exactly what to spend on anything. Their tough talk has educators and others worried the court will order schools to remain closed until legislators comply.

Such orders have been issued or threatened in other states, and a Kansas judge even told the state last year that it could not spend a penny on its schools until legislators fixed the funding system, a decision that would have kept classrooms closed ? and 445,000 students at home ? had the Supreme Court not put it on hold.

"It truly does seem to me to be the natural consequence," said Dan Biles, an attorney for the State Board of Education.

Such a development would represent another embarrassment for the Kansas school system, which was ridiculed around the country in 1999 when the state school board deleted most references to evolution. The school system later reversed course. But now it is likely to adopt new science standards that are critical of evolution.

Michele Henry, a Topeka mother of two daughters, ages 7 and 9, said legislators need to provide enough money for schools.

"Other people are not allowed not to do their jobs," said Henry, who is the president of the parent-teacher organization at her daughters' school. "Their job is to fund education programs for our children."

The Supreme Court's directive June 3 came in a six-year-old lawsuit from Dodge City and Salina, where parents and administrators claimed Kansas spends too little money on education and distributes its aid unfairly, shortchanging poor children, minorities and struggling students.

In January, the Supreme Court said legislators had failed to do their duty under the Kansas Constitution to provide a suitable education for all children. But the justices were not specific about a fix.

GOP leaders pushed through a plan to increase state school aid by $142 million, or about 5 percent, while avoiding the tax increases that Sebelius and other Democrats saw as necessary.

The high court said that the plan was inadequate and that the increase for the next school year must be $285 million, or 10 percent. The court also said it could order much larger spending increases in the future.

The governor and legislators received new, more optimistic revenue projections this week, which they said eliminated the need to consider an immediate tax increase.

Kansas' Republican legislators, particularly conservatives, were furious with the court when it ruled and remained so even after the good fiscal news.

"I think it's high time we confronted the court," said Rep. Frank Miller. "One thing we could do is just refuse to obey."

Such rhetoric has some educators worried about the next school term.

"Families organize their lives around the school system," said Andrea Ewert, a counselor at Hutchinson High School. "When school is in session, children don't only have breakfast here but lunch here, and in many elementary schools, there are after-school programs to keep them in a safe environment."

In a similar dispute in New York state, a master appointed by the state's highest court recently said New York City's schools need an additional $5.6 billion over the next four years. In New Jersey in 1976, the state's highest court ordered schools to remain closed, successfully forcing legislators to improve funding. Threats from high courts in Arizona and Texas compelled legislators in those states to do the same.

"That is a remedy that clearly is within the court's power," said Michael Rebell, executive director of the Campaign for Fiscal Equity, which sued over New York City's education funding. "The threat is usually very effective."

The Kansas court has not said what it would do if lawmakers defied the order.

"I would just as soon not learn the answer to that question," said Senate Majority Leader Derek Schmidt, a Republican.
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the solution here is simple. each and everyone of these legislators is threatening to essentially violate civil rights laws. children who's parents pay taxes are entitled to a free education. all these legislators should go to federal prisons or at least trial because they are doing so. agree? disagree? discuss.

Posted: 6/17/2005, 8:25 am
by closeyoureyes
I was reading about their cynicism of Evolution on CNN awhile back, was it not resolved? I don't think they should be teaching creationism as the truth, its a public school system, that isn't fair to all of those who aren't Christian.

Posted: 6/17/2005, 1:59 pm
by Joe Cooler
"But now it is likely to adopt new science standards that are critical of evolution."

Many scientists these days are very sceptical of evolution and it's claims without being creationist. Some believe in Intelligent Design (which is like creationism without necessarly beiieving the world was created in 7 literal days) and others dont believe either, they just know that evolution is becoming an increasingly hard theory to believe in. However the only way it can be truelly fair is if they teach a number of theory's.

Posted: 6/17/2005, 2:32 pm
by Henrietta
that isn't fair to all of those who aren't Christian.

So, how is it fair to children who are Christian?

Posted: 6/17/2005, 11:16 pm
by Bandalero
the hell was i thinking when i posted this article....sounds lame. :wtf:

Posted: 6/18/2005, 12:11 am
by closeyoureyes
Cass wrote:
that isn't fair to all of those who aren't Christian.

So, how is it fair to children who are Christian?

True.
However, there are Christian Schools :p And also, your country claims to have a seperate church and state, therefore religious idealogy shouldn't be taught in government funded schools. Not to say i'm for or against creationism, it's irrelevant. Just in the public education system in a country that has a seperate church and state, it is a violation.

Posted: 6/18/2005, 12:17 am
by nikki4982
^ :nod:

Posted: 6/18/2005, 12:49 am
by Henrietta
All of the religions have seperate schools. I'm sure there are muslim schools out there, etc.

And I suppose I only actually believe in the seperation of church and state to an extent. I believe that God led our founding fathers to create the Constitution. Although I know alot of people don't..

Anyhow, I think Kansas sucks for that too. Education keeps getting worse and worse, I am almost scared to go into the field.

Posted: 6/18/2005, 11:28 am
by Joe Cooler
closeyoureyes wrote:
Cass wrote:
that isn't fair to all of those who aren't Christian.

So, how is it fair to children who are Christian?

True.
However, there are Christian Schools :p And also, your country claims to have a seperate church and state, therefore religious idealogy shouldn't be taught in government funded schools. Not to say i'm for or against creationism, it's irrelevant. Just in the public education system in a country that has a seperate church and state, it is a violation.


In the case of "the origin of the world" I think it would be beneficial to teach other theory's besides evolution. Over the last few years many sceintists have become increasingly sceptical of evolution to the point where they've dumped the theory all together in favor of intelligent design. They see intelligent design as a credible scientific theory. Not a cop out because they can't fit evolution or any secular theory into what they are discovering. So if intelligent design is a theory that is gaining increased popularity among sceintists are we to ignore it in our schools simply it treads on religous ground? I hope not.

Posted: 6/18/2005, 11:44 am
by closeyoureyes
No, and I agree they could teach it as a possible theory. I also disagree with Darwinism being taught as the absolute truth because it is very flawed. But so is pure creationism. All i'm saying is, you can teach all the theories galore, evolution included, but you shouldn't be teaching a religious rooted idealogy as absolute truth in a public school.

Posted: 6/18/2005, 11:54 am
by thirdhour
We don't ever remember talking about THE CREATION OF THE WORLD!! (dramatic music cue now) in class. It's kind of a freaking huge topic to discuss with a bunch of kids in grade 3, especially since nobody knows. I mean, in science we talked about dinosaurs and how they became extinct and how mammels came after them, etc. Then in science 10, we discuss genes and how evolution works in theory. I also understand the concept of the religious ideology, so I'm assuming that was taught as another theory sometime in schools, and we talked about big bang, but I don't remember when....seriously, I think people take this topic a wee bit too seriously. It's just a tiny part of one class that most kids forget all the stuff they learned in anyways. By not teaching the religious way, I don't think they're exactly crushing religion in schools...I mean, kids need to learn the theory of evolution, even if they don't think it was how the world works. It's important to understand how genes work, and it IS used in life today, such as animal breeding to bring out certain traits.



However, wtf does this have to do with the original topic?

How the hell can they decide to just close every single school down in an entire state because the goverment's having a catfight? Like, uh, education is a hell of a lot more important, jeebus! they're fighting over how to best fund education, but then they completely take it away? that's bull. use something else as a bargaining tool. I know in bc, it's been decided that schools are an essential service, which they kind of are. they're screwing over the future of the kids they are supposed to be helping.

Posted: 6/18/2005, 1:45 pm
by Joe Cooler
Of course it's important for kids to learn the theory of evolution. However in most cases, evolution is taught as "truth" and thats the problem.

Posted: 6/18/2005, 1:57 pm
by afealicious
"once upon a time there was a nam and he gave birth."

need there be any other theory?

Posted: 6/18/2005, 1:59 pm
by Joe Cooler
Clearly not.

Posted: 6/18/2005, 2:07 pm
by Axtech
The turtle was very sick, and threw up the universe. He later threw up inside his shell and died.

Posted: 6/18/2005, 2:13 pm
by afealicious
ewww so there's a pukey turtle corpse floating around somewhere?

Posted: 6/18/2005, 2:40 pm
by AnnieDreams
closeyoureyes wrote: I also disagree with Darwinism being taught as the absolute truth because it is very flawed.


Well, there goes half my grade nine science unit...

Posted: 6/18/2005, 3:03 pm
by closeyoureyes
I remember learning Darwinism was the absolute truth too, we talked about it for a number of weeks.

Posted: 6/18/2005, 3:07 pm
by AnnieDreams
We didn't actually go in-depth into Darwinism and exactly what it was, but we did a heck of a lot on survival of the fittest and/or Natural Selection.

Posted: 6/18/2005, 3:10 pm
by closeyoureyes
But to you and I it was taught as the absolute truth, no?