Gay Marriage

[closeyoureyes]

I've always wondered why some states ban Gay Adoption. I mean, people dont parent as "Homo Sexuals" or "Hetero Sexuals", they parent as "People". I dont think that the church or the government likes people.

[I AM ME]

no ones forcing a priest to marry anyone, they just want to be married by a priest that does agree to do so. And they want to be able to get the benefits of marriage

[Narbus]

Homosexual marriage makes marriage "unclean" because weither we like it or not there is a lot of religous significance to marriage. Mabye not everyone gets married in a church but for the majority out there, a church is where you get married.

First, the rights of the majority don't get to tread on the individual in this country. It's (actually) one of the founding principles of the country. Hence the "right to privacy."
Second, you are implying here that those people who aren't married in church, like my friend married in a park, or anyone married by a Justice of the Peace, somehow have "inferior" marriages to those people who were wed in a church. Obviously untrue.
Third, simply because marriage was largely once the province of the church does not mean that it still. You've not shown how the church's influence on marriage should somehow trump the Constitutionally guaranteed separation of church and state. Also, this notion again raises the idea that some marriages are more important than others. After all, if the Church is the sole bastion of marriage, which church is the most important? Are my parents', who were married in a Catholic Church, somehow "less married" than my brother, who was married in a non-demoninational Christian church? Are Mormons "more married" than Hindus? Given the huge differences in belief between most of the major religions, I can't see how a marriage is somehow "better" than any other marriage, just because one happened to take place in some church. Doesn't matter what church, just some church.

I believe this whole situation is far more tricky then most people make it out to be. Mabye not everyone in the world has the same views as the church but how does that make the churches views invalid? They dont agree with gay marriage, and the other majority does. Where do we say who's right? Church and state may be seperated but when it comes to marriage a lot of religous people feel that the state is treading on their ground.

I fail to see how two men getting married treads on anyone's rights. It's not as if for every gay couple married a straight one is forced to divorce, or get married, or anything at all for that matter. The law of the land is that church and state are to be separate. You haven't shown any non-religious reason that two men or women getting married will somehow affect anyone else's rights, and that's really what this comes down to.

[I AM ME]

pont!

[closeyoureyes]

yeah i know, i mean, religion to some people is very important, and you're allowed to have your own view, but in the eyes of the <i>law</i> religion shouldnt be in sight. To me, not allowing gay people to marry is unconstitutional. Before people are gay, they are people. Just as equal as any other person on the planet.

[I AM ME]

not to mention obviously hundreds of the catholic churches ministers are gay

[Joe Cooler]

I fail to see how two men getting married treads on anyone's rights. It's not as if for every gay couple married a straight one is forced to divorce, or get married, or anything at all for that matter. The law of the land is that church and state are to be separate. You haven't shown any non-religious reason that two men or women getting married will somehow affect anyone else's rights, and that's really what this comes down to.

Alright fair enough, but note that i wasnt stating my beliefs but rather stating my oppinions on why the church is having issues with gay marriage.

[Tattooed Angels]

The only thing different between me and a Lesbian is I have sex with men, she has sex with woman. End of story. In the end we are all the same. We are looking for that one person who makes our life complete.

I disagree. Being gay isn't about how you act, although that could affect it. It's about attraction towards a certain sex. What you do with how you feel is a matter of personal choice. A person who chooses to be a celibate can be gay or straight but they're not sleeping around nor are they in a relationship.

I didn't say being homeosexual is about a way you actr nor did I they were sleeping around. I said the only difference between me and a lesbian was sexual preference-I choose to have sex with men, she chooses to have sex with woman. Everything else is the same. Or so you can understand what I am trying to say, I am attracted to the opposite sex, while someone homosexual is attracted to the same sex. Other then that there is no difference.

I will also let you know that I have done some activist work for Homosexual rights for years. I told you I do volunteer work for the GMHC(mostly for the AIDS Walk) but I have done other projects for them. I did the march in DC years ago for rights. I really don't think of someone as Homosexual or not homosexual. Just like I don't see a person as black or white. i see the individual, not the label.

Cass,
a starter marriage is a phrase they came up with for all these people who get married then get it annuled or divorce. I think it is another name for a first marriage that last up to 2 years. They then get married again and it works. I personally am a bit appalled at a phrase like that. But what can you do.? People do what they want to do for all kinds of reasons. There was actually a book written on it.

[Henrietta]

Ahh...thanks. That is rather gross. What can ya do?

[finding emo]

I have a gay friend named Joshua who is also very, very religious. All I can say is that his religion has pretty much brainwashed him. I asked him how he felt about gay marriages and he goes, "I don't believe in them because God doesn't want it that way." and I'm like, "But you're gay?" and he told me that he is gay and God made him gay, but God also made him strong enough to realize that he will never act upon his attractions and will spend the rest of his life alone.

That just makes me sad.

[Joe Cooler]

Brainwashed?

I wouldnt go so far to say he's brainwashed. The christian church is no cult. They dont force anyone to do anything. At least any true church doesnt. If he feels that way then thats his choice.

Anyone who knows me well would probably consider me "very religous" but it was through my own choices that i follow church docterine and rules. The same probably goes for your friend

Then again i dont know him but from the knowledge i have, i'd say brainwashed is a pretty harsh term.

[closeyoureyes]

Brainwashed is pretty harsh. I've been catholic my entire life, and my family are strict catholics too, but i have insight into what i hear, and i know the rest of my family does to. We all just dont absorb whats going on. Unless your friend is in a religious cult? or perhaps he's a jehovah's witness, i live near alot of them and they say god makes them do things alot.

[finding emo]

Fine with whatever you think... I am religious as well (I'm Jewish), but I do not believe that people should think that God made them to spend the rest of their lives feeling lonely and ashamed.

[finding emo]

My friend IS Catholic. And maybe brainwashed isn't the term to use... but the big deal wasn't the terms that I stated that with, really guys. So don't go overboard on the fact that I used the term "brainwashed" that wasn't the BIG PART to what I said.

[closeyoureyes]

No one was going overboard, and you're right, that wasnt your main arguement

[doug]

First, the rights of the majority don't get to tread on the individual in this country

ha, fucking ha. do you need me to prove that that statement is totally false?

i know that's not the point of this thread and i'll respect that. but please.

I have a gay friend named Joshua who is also very, very religious. All I can say is that his religion has pretty much brainwashed him. I asked him how he felt about gay marriages and he goes, "I don't believe in them because God doesn't want it that way." and I'm like, "But you're gay?" and he told me that he is gay and God made him gay, but God also made him strong enough to realize that he will never act upon his attractions and will spend the rest of his life alone.

That just makes me sad.

That is sad, but it is his choice.

[happening fish]

The christian church is no cult. They dont force anyone to do anything.

Oh, I guess you mean except the part where they tell you that if you don't wholly embrace their beliefs then you have angered God and he is sending you to hell? Shame and guilt are perfectly legitimate forms of coercion.

[Corey]

The christian church is no cult. They dont force anyone to do anything.

Oh, I guess you mean except the part where they tell you that if you don't wholly embrace their beliefs then you have angered God and he is sending you to hell? Shame and guilt are perfectly legitimate forms of coercion.

hmmm.. well not sure what church you're talking about but ok....
Let's pretend what you said is correct... chances are if you don't fully embrace the beliefs of the church, you don't give 2 craps about the whole hell thing, eh?

It's like saying "If you don't believe in unicorns, you're going to get a wedgie from a dragon"

Well, you don't believe in unicorns or dragons so are you really worried about the wedgie?

[Joe Cooler]

Exactly.

[committed]

if you think god says don't be gay, have you actually looked for yourself or do you think so because your pastor said so?

Is homosexuality a sin?

by Parents and Friends of Lesbian and Gays

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question 1 - In your opinion, does God regard homosexuality as a sin?

Question 2 - In your opinion, do the Scriptures object to homosexuality?

Rev Dr William R Stayton (Baptist -- minister, certified sexologist,
associate professor of psychiatric and human behaviour, servant
on faculty of LaSalle University's graduate department of
religious studies, holder of master of divinity from Andover
Newtown Theological School and a Th.D. in psychology from Boston
university):

Q1: Absolutely not! There is nothing in the Bible or in
my own theology that would lead me to believe that
God regards homosexuality as sin. God is interested
in our relationships with ourselves, others, the things
in our lives, and with God (MAT 23:36-40). There is
nothing in the mind of God that could be against a
loving, sexual relationship, freely entered into,
without coercion, among sincere adults whether gay,
bisexual or straight.

Q2: There is _nothing_ in the Bible regarding homosexual
orientation. In fact, the Bible does not concern
itself with sexual orientation. It does speak out
probably against gang rape, male prostitution for
religious purposes, and pederasty (sex between an
adult and youth). I lead bible study programs on this
subject and am convinced that the Bible does not
address the issue of a person's sexual orientation.


Bishop John S Spong (Episcopal -- bishop, most published
member of the Episcopal house of bishops, author to 11 books and 50
published articles, phi beta kappa graduate of UNC Chapel Hill,
holds masters in divinity and an honorary doctorate in divinity
from Protestant Episcopal Theological Seminary, received honorary
doctorate in divinity from St Paul's College):

Q1: Some argue that since homosexual behaviour is "unnatural"
it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this
pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of
masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender
categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing
unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the
same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a
fuller state of being. Contemporary research is
uncovering new facts that are producing a rising
conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness,
sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural
and affirming form of human sexuality for some people.
Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in
the nature of a significant portion of people, and that
it is unchangeable.
Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our
understanding. But the God of creation speaks and
declares, "I have looked out on _everything_ I have made
and `behold it (is) very good'." (GEN 1:31). The word of
God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed,
and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued
by a prejudiced world.

Q2: There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The
first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted
to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the
real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men
to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was
to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female
role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves
Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual
demands of the mob. How many would say, "_This_ is the
word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally,
it might well be well for the one quoting to read the
text in its entirety.

Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual
behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the
word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the
same word used to describe a menstruating woman.
Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn
homosexuality (ROM 1:26-27 and 1 COR 6:9-11). But
homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment
visited upon idolaters *by* God because of their
unfaithfulness. Homosexuality was not the sin but the
punishment.

In 1 COR 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not
inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the
immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves,
the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Sexual
perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible
that the juxtaposition of _malakos_, the soft, effeminate
word, with _arsenokoitus_, or male prostitute, was meant
to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual
liaison.

Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of
homosexual behaviour. But was Paul's opinion about
homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack
of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by
prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of
Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer
this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic
attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was
not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be
veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been
challenged and transcended even by the church! Is
Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than
some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned
ideas?

Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy,
Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of
male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing
examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of
unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter
respectively).

That is all that Scripture has to say about
homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist,
these references do not build an ironclad case for
condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there
is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of
ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to
be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition
toward those of their own sex.


Bishop R Stewart Wood Jr (Episcopal -- graduate of Dartmouth
College, masters degree in counselling from Ball State
University, masters and doctorate degrees in divinity from
Virginia Theological Seminary):

Q1: No. Our sexual orientation is a given, something
we discover about ourselves -- some might say "a
gift from God". How one relates to others --
caring or exploiting -- is the source of sin.

Q2: I am aware of the concern for certain homosexual
acts and see no addressing [in the Scriptures] of the
condition or orientation.


Rabbi Jeffrey Lazar (Reformed Judaism -- educator at Temple Sinai
in Atlanta, holds bachelors degree from Syracuse University,
bachelors and masters degree in Hebrew Letters from Hebrew Union
College, member and trustee of the National Association of Temple
Educators):

Q1: First of all, I do not know what God thinks. In my
opinion, homosexuality is not a sin, but an alternate
lifestyle. In my opinion, homosexuality by itself is
not immoral. When sex is used to corrupt, for
prurient and/or exploitative purposes or selfish
reasons or to hurt someone else, this is immoral.

Q2: The Bible, in my opinion, is very clear in its
objection to homosexuality.


Rabbi Janet R Marder (Reformed Judaism -- associate director for
the Union of American Hebrew Congregations Pacific Southwest
Council, graduate of University of California at Santa Cruz,
co-chair of Nechama, an AIDS/HIV education program for the Jewish
community):

Q1: The God I worship endorses loving, committed, monogamous
relationships, regardless of the gender of those
involved.

Q2: I believe that the Hebrew Bible strongly condemns
homosexuality. While it is part of my tradition, I do
not regard all Biblical laws as binding on me. The
Biblical condemnation of homosexuality is based on human
ignorance, suspicion of those who are different, and an
overwhelming concern for ensuring the survival of the
people. Since the Bible regards homosexuality as a
capital crime, it clearly assumes that homosexuality
is a matter of free choice, a deliberate rebellion
against God. We have learned from modern science that
people do not choose to be gay or straight; hence it is
neither logical nor moral to condemn those whose nature
it is to be gay or lesbian.


Rabbi Dr David Teutsch, PhD (Reconstructionist Judaism --
executive vice president and director of contemporary
civilisations at Reconstructionist Rabbinical College, holds
bachelors in general studies from Harvard University and masters
degree in Hebrew Letters from Hebrew Union College and PhD in
social system science from the University of Pennsylvania):

Q1: Homosexuality -- as is true of heterosexuality -- is
a naturally occuring sexual orientation that can be
expressed in more ethical and less ethical ways. In
itself homosexual love making is not sinful.

Q2: The Scriptural references to homosexuality make no
comment on lesbianism. They object to male homosexuality
on three grounds: cultic prostitution, unnaturalness,
and "spilling seed" or Onanism. Homosexuality has been
shown to be natural in animals and humans. Gay men today
are not involved in cultic acts. And the spilling of
seed through heterosexual, homosexual or masturbatory
acts is not an issue for me. Thus I take this
prohibition no more seriously than many others, such as
that against lending money at interest, that do not
make sense in the first place.


Rabbi Marc H Wilson (Independent Traditional Judaism -- holds
bachelor degree in sociology from DePaul University and a
bachelor degree in Hebrew Literature, holds a Hebrew Teacher and
Principal licence from Hebrew Theological College, columnist in
nine newspapers and via one wire service):

Q1: No, not so long as the behavior is:
a) not obsessive (as would be true, likewise,
of heterosexuality)
b) responsible and safe (ditto as above)
c) non-abusive (ditto as above)
d) the manifestation of a loving, respectful
relationship (Jewish Bible, Old Testament)

Q2: [It was sin] only insofar as that at _that [biblical] time_
homosexual behaviour was a manifestation of abusive sexual
practices associated with idolatry and fertility cultism,
and thus an "abomination" because of the association, not
because of the intrinsic "relationship". Also, because it
was "unnatural", that is non-procreative, understandably in
the _tribal_ times when procreation was of highest priority.


Bishop Stanley E Olson (Lutheran -- holds undergraduate degree
from Wittenberg University, seminary trained at
Luther-Northwestern Seminary, holds an honorary doctor of
divinity from California Lutheran University):

Q1/Q2: Biblical scholars are busy restudying the few verses
which have often been regarded as anti-homosexual. One
thing is clear, these few verses do not refer to
homosexuality as we understand and use that term today.
The Biblical texts do speak against sexual exploitation
and rape whether committed by persons with a heterosexual
or homosexual orientation. The great message of
Scripture is of a God of unbounded love for the human
family. If God has any preference at all, it is for "the
least", "the lost" and "the last". God's amazing grace,
compassion and salvation is open to everyone. Jesus is
very clear in placing his gospel beyond the limitations
of churches and denominations. He says, "I have other
sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also.
So that there shall be one flock, one shepherd"
(JOHN 10:16). Here is a partial list of verses that has
every right in being equally addressed to homosexual
or heterosexual Christians: John 3:16, Galatians 3:27,
Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:21-24, Acts 10.


Dr Carl O McGrath, PhD (Former Mormon -- was a member of church
for 50 years, past Stake high councillor, resigned from church
over church's position on homosexuality in 1989, holds a PhD from
the University of Washington and currently serves there as a
clinical assistant professor):

Q1: My sexuality is a God-given state of being which includes
natural erotic attractions and desires. In moving from
infancy to adulthood, part of my work is to allow myself
to experience my eroticism in ways that enable me to
discover who I actuall am, not who society says I should
be. I believe that the Creator of our natural erotic
attractions, whether they are for opposite or same-sex
persons, views our eroticism as an intrinsic and
beautiful part of who God intended us to be. God did
not intend that there would be one way of being sexual.
Even among heterosexual people, there is no one "right"
way to be sexual. Our uniqueness comes from the
creativity of God at the most basic level. I believe
God is please when we respond to our unique form of
sexuality in ways that are life-giving. I believe that
it is life giving when sexual relationships reflect a
high degree of mutuality, love, and justice.

Q2: The Scriptures of my relgious tradition include the
_Holy Bible_, _Book of Mormon_, _Doctrine and Covenants_,
and _Pearl of Great Price_. There are five references in
the Bible that I grew up believing to be Scriptural proof
against homosexuality. However, I now believe it would
be a mistake to rely upon these references in forming my
conclusions about homosexuality for the following reasons:

a) What I have learned from living my life is
that those references in the Bible are not
speaking to the truth I have experienced
in relation to how God views homosexual love.

b) Although the General Authorities of my church
have expressed strong negative opinions about
homosexuality, none of our latter day Prophets
have proclaimed revelation from God on this
issue, including President Spencer W Kimball
who has probably been the most oustpoken on
this topic.

c) None of the words we attribute to Christ make
any reference to homosexuality.

d) None of the latter-day Scriptures make any
reference to homosexuality.


Rev Dr George R Edwards, PhD (Presbyterian -- professor emeritus
of new testament theology at Louisville Presbyterian Theological
Seminary, holds masters in diviinty from LPTS and a PhD from Duke
University, taught new testament theology studies at LPTS from
1958-1985, member of Society of Biblical Literature):

Q1: God does not regard homosexuality as a sin any more than
heterosexuality. Sin is lack of respect for God; it is a
lack of love or respect for other persons. Whether gay
or straight, therefore, one _may_ sin against God or
others. But God forgives us when we sin and strengthens
us in resisting sin. We are led by God's forgiving love
to become more respectful and loving toward God and
towards others, even those we don't _"like"_.

Q2: The Scriptures are very important because they teach us
God's love for all, gay or straight. But the Scriptures
are old, thousands of years old, written even before the
word "homosexual" existed. Same sex acts involving the
genitals -- we call these "homogenital" -- seem in
Scripture to be thought of as a result of idol worship.
See, for example, Romans 1:18-27. Nor do the Scriptures
seem to understand what we mean today by "sexual
orientation". Sexual acts which are injurious,
disrespectful, or unloving toward the other person are
wrong. So I believe that the Scriptures approve of
homosexuality and even homogenital acts that are kind,
generous, loving, and respectful of the other person,
just as in the case of heterosexuality or heterogenital
acts.


Rev Harry L Holfelder (Presbyterian -- chair of AIDS Interfaith
Network of Baltimore and is senior pastor of local church, is
active with the Maryland Interfaith Legislative Committee):

Q1: No, I do not think that God regards homosexuality as a
sin. I believe that one's sexual preference is first
and foremost a matter of biology (creation) and only
secondarily a matter of choice (responsibility). Since
I also believe that all God creates is good, I conclude
that human sexuality (not a matter of choice for anyone)
is good, whether that sexual expression be heterosexual
or homosexual.

Q2: A careful and sensitive reading of the Scriptures does
not lead to the automatic conclusion that homosexuality
is a sin. There are passages, especially in the
"holiness literature" that suggests this conclusion.
However, the overall message of Scripture in this matter
is fare more positive than negative. Biblically, the
issue is the goodness of human sexuality and the use of
that gift in covenant relationships. For me a more
important question is that of the relationship of God in
Christ to a human being. In this relationship I see no
barriers, even sexual ones.


Sister Mary Ann Ford (Roman Catholic -- member of Sisters,
Servants of the Immaculate Heart of Mary for 39 years, holds
masters degree in mathematics and in pastoral ministry, has
taught in mathematics and religious instruction in high schools
and later colleges, chaplain of the Detroit chapter of Dignity
for the past 15 years):

Q1: Two truths are especially relevant in thinking this
through. First we have a theological point. God,
the one who has made all of creation, loves and
cherishes all creatures without exception. Second,
modern psychology shows us that homosexual orientation
is set by age five or six. Most psychologists agree
that that it is not a matter of choice, whether
orientation is inborn as some think or acquired very early
as other say. How then could an all-loving God possibly
violate Divine nature and regard homosexuals as "sinners"?

Q2: Contemporary Biblical scholars are indicating that the
idea of homosexual orientation was unknown to the writers
of the Sacred Scripture. Certainly they had no knowledge
of the Kinsey research which established the existence of
a continuum along which all of us are somewhere between
the end points of totally heterosexual thorugh bisexuality
to exclusively homosexual. Many of the oft-quoted
"condemnatory passages" may assume that heterosexuals
are acting out of their violation of their "nature".
There also is question as to whether words which appear
in our English texts refer in some cases in the original
languages not to homosexuals but male prostitutes which
were used in pagan worship. Certainly, nowhere does the
Bible legislate on the matter of loving sexual activity
between consenting adults in committed relationships.


Sister Jeannine Gramick, PhD (Roman Catholic -- member of School
Sisters of Notre Dame since 1960, holds PhD in education from
University of Pennsylvania, was assistant professor of
mathematics and education at the College of Notre Dame Maryland,
conducts theological, sociological and ministerial workshops
nationwide on the dimensions of homosexuality):

Q1: God has created people with romantic and physical
attractions to the same sex, as well as those with
attractions to the opposite sex. Many, if not most,
people, we are now discovering, have both kinds of
attractions in varying degrees. All of these feelings
are natural and are considered good and blessed by God.
These feelings and attractions are not sinful.
Most Catholic moral theologians now hold that homogenital
behaviour, as well as heterogenital behaviour, is good
and holy in God's sight when it is an expression of a
special and unique love which one person has for another.
Both homosexual and heterosexual genital expression can
be sinful if they are manipulative, dishonest, or
unloving actions.

Q2: When read at face value, the Scriptures have nothing
positive to say about homogenital behaviour. However,
most Christians do not interpret the Bible literally;
they try to understand the Scriptures in their historical
and cultural context and see what meaning the Scriptures
have for us today.

The Scriptures were written approximately 2000 or more
years ago when there was no knowledge of constitutional
homosexuality. The Scripture writers believed that all
people were naturally heterosexual so that they viewed
homosexuality activity as unnatural.
Women today are pointing out that the inferiority of
women expressed in the scriptures was a product of
culture and the times in which the Bible was written;
it should not be followed today, now that we are
beginning to appreciate the natural and God-given
equality of men and women.

Similarly, as we know that homosexuality is just as
natural and God-given as heterosexuality, we realise
that the Biblical injunctions against homosexuality were
conditioned by the attitudes and beliefs about this form
of sexual expression which were held by people without
benefit of centuries of scientific knowledge and
understanding.

It is unfair of us to expect or impose a twentieth
century mentality and understanding about equality of
genders, races and sexual orientations on the Biblical
writers. We must be able to distinguish the eternal
truths the Bible is meant to convey from the cultural
forms and attitudes expressed there.


Rev C Robert Nugent (Roman Catholic -- co-editor of "The Vatican
and Homosexuality", holds degrees from St Charles College, St
Charles Theologate, a degree in library science from Villanova
University and a Masters of Sacred Theology from Yale University
Divinity School):

Q1: I do not believe that God regards homosexuality as a
"sin" if homosexuality means the psychosexual identity
of lesbians or gay persons, which we know from
contemporary scientific studies is within the boundaries
of healthy, human psychological development, and which
seems to be as natural for some people as heterosexuality
is for others. If homosexuality means the emotional,
intimate bonding in same-gender relationships of love and
friendship, I believe that since God is love, where there
is authentic love, God is present.

Where god is present, there can be no sin. If
homosexuality means same-gender erotic, physical
expressions of union and pleasure, the possiblity of
personal sin exists in homosexuality -- as it does in
heterosexuality -- depending on the interplay of three
factors including the physical behaviour itself and its
meaning for the person, the personal motives and intents
of the person acting, and the individual and social
consequences or results of the behaviour. For many
people, sexual behaviour which is exploitative, coercive,
manipulative, dishonest, selfish or destructive of human
personhood is sinful; for all people "sin" means freely
acting contrary to one's deeply held moral or ethical
convictions, whether these come from organised religion
or a personally developed value system. In speaking of
the "sinfulness" of same-gender genital expressions, the
Roman Catholic Bishops of Washington say that "...no one
except Almighty God can make certain judgements about the
personal sinfulness of acts (_The Prejudice Against
Homosexuals and the Ministry of the Church_, Washington
State Catholic Conference, 1983).

Q2: Catholicism uses four major sources for principles and
guidance in ethical questions like homosexuality: scripture,
tradition (theologians, church documents, official
teachings, etc), reason, and human experience. All are
used in conjunction with one another. Scripture is
fundamental and primary authoritative Catholic source --
but not the _only_ source. Biblical witness is taken
seriously, but not literally. An individual scriptural
text must be understood in the larger context of the
original language and culture, the various levels of
meanings, and the texts' applications to contemporary
realities in light of the role of the community's and
its official leadership role in providing authoritative
interpretations. Both Jewish and Christian scriptures
do speak negatively of certain form of same-gender
(generally male) sexual _behaviour_ (not same-gender
_love_), especially when associated with idol worship,
lust, violence, degradation, prostitution, etc. Whether
scriptures condemn all and every form of same-gender
sexual expression _in and of itself_ for all times,
places and individuals is the topic of serious
theological and Biblical discussion and debate.

Same-gender expressions of responsible, faithful love in
a convenanted relationship between two truly homosexually
oriented people not gifted with celibacy is not something
envisioned by scriptures. Whether this form of
homosexuality violates biblical or anthropoligcal
principles of sexuality and personhood -- especially in
light of current scientific knowledge and human
experience about the homosexual orientation -- is a key
issue facing the churches and religious groups today.


Rev Dr William F Schulz, DD (Unitarian Universalist -- president
of the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations, a phi
beta kappa graduate of Oberlin College, holds masters in
philosophy from University of Chicago and doctorates in ministry
and divinity from Meadville-Lombard Theological School,
boardmember of numerous organisations including People For the
American Way and Americans United for the Separation of Church
and State, author of numerous books and articles, appears on
national radio programs and in nationally-distributed newspapers,
listed in Who's Who of America):

Q1: I do not believe that God regards homosexuality as a sin.
In the first place, of course, I do not believe in an
anthropomorphic God who defines or delineates sinful
behaviour. But even if I did, I cannot believe such a
God would reject any of His/Her children on the basis of
their affectional orientations. If He/She did, such a
God would not be one to whom I would want to pay homage.

Q2: While the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) certainly
condemns what it refers to as sodomy, it also condemns
a whole host of other practices (e.g., sleeping with a
menstruating woman) which have long been accepted as
reputable. Most of the Old Testament is surely not an
appropriate resource from which to obtain guidance
regarding contemporary ethics! Turning to the New
Testament, we discover that Jesus has nothing whatsoever
to say regarding homosexuality. Inasmuch as he
frequently condemned others of whose behaviour he
disapproved (e.g., the money-changers in the temple),
it is significant that he makes no reference to
homosexuals or their practices.


Dr Karen Lebacqz, PhD (United Church of Christ -- professor of
Christian ethics at Pacific School of Religion, holds bachelor
degree in Biblical history from Wellesley College and masters and
PhD in religion and society from Harvard University, phi beta
kappa member and past president of the Society of Christian
Ethics):

Q1: What God *does* regard as sin is oppression, injustice,
persecution, disrespect for person. This sin, then, is
homophobia, gay-bashing, discriminatory legislation
toward lesbians and gays, refusal to include
lesbian/gay/bisexual people into our churches and
communities. To force *any* people, whether for reasons
of race, age, or sexual orientation, into a "ghetto" --
this is a sin.

Q2: Yes and No. Yes, in the same sense that the Scriptures
object to wearing clothes of different fabrics, eating
pork or other kinds of meat, and women speaking in
church. That is to say, the Scriptures are a human
product which reflects the cultural limitations of their
time. Thus, they speak negatively about a number of
practices that are routinely accepted today, including
certain sexual practices. Some of these sexual practices
are engaged in by both heterosexually and homosexually
oriented people.

No, in the same sense that the Scriptures do not speak
clearly to the phenomenon that we today call
"homosexuality". That is, Scripture speaks negatively
about certain _behaviours_, most notably temple
prostitution, not about basic _orientation_ or about
loving and committed gay/lesbian _relationships_. (A
possible exception here is the praise of the
relationship between David and Jonathan.)


Rev Dr James B Nelson, PhD (United Church of Christ -- professor
of Christian ethics at the United Theological Seminary of the
Twin Cities, holds bachelor degree from Macalester College and a
bachelor and masters and PhD in divinity from Yale University,
visiting scholar at Oxford and Cambridge Universities and
visiting professor at numerous other institutions, consulting
editor of "Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality", honorary doctor
of Sacred Theology from Dickinson University and award-winning
educator for the United Church of Christ):

Q1: I am convinced that our sexuality and our sexual
orientations, whatever they may be, are a gift from
God. Sexuals in does not reside in our orientations,
but rather in expressing our sexuality in ways that
harm, oppress, oruse others for our own selfish
gratification. When we express ourselves sexually in
ways that are loving and just, faithful and responsible,
then I am convinced that God celebrates our sexuality,
whatever our orientation may be.

Q2: The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality
as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of
sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that
were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A
few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to
certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The
particular acts in question, however, are sexual sexual
expressions which are exploitive, oppressive,
commercialised, or offensive to ancient purity rituals.
There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex
relationships which are loving and mutually respecting.
Guidelines for these relationships should come from the
same general Scriptural norms that apply to hetersoexual
relationships.


Rev Dr Professor John B Cobb Jr, PhD (United Methodist --
recently retired from Ingraham Professor of Theology at the
School of Theology at Claremont and an Avery Professor at
Claremont Graduate School, holds masters and PhD from the
University of Chicago Divinity school):

Q1: Surely being attracted to persons of the same sex is not,
as such, a sin. But of course how we act in our
attractions, towards whichever sex, is often sinful. The
ideal is to be responsible and faithful rather than
self-indulgent. Unfortunately, society does not
encourage responsible and faithful relations with persons
of the same sex. That makes the situation of the
homosexual very difficult.

Q2: Certainly some of the Biblical writers objected to
homosexual acts, but there is surprisingly little
attention to this topic. The opposition of the church
comes from other sources much more than from scripture.
There are more scriptural reasons to oppose homophobia
than to oppose homosexuality.


Bishop Melvin Wheatley Jr (United Methodist -- ordained elder of
the United Methodist Church who retired in 1984 after 33 years as
pastor and 12 years as bishop, honorary PFLAG director due to
services to gay and lesbian people in the church):

Q1: Of course not! The preponderance of evidence now
available identifies homosexuality to be as natural a
sexual orientation for a significant percentage of
persons as heterosexuality is the natural sexual
orientation for the majority of persons. Homosexuality
is an authentic condition of being with which some
persons are endowed (a gift from God, if you please), not
an optional sexual lifestyle which they have willfully,
whimsically or sinfully chosen. Certainly one's
sexuality -- heterosexual or homosexual -- may be acted
out in behaviours that are sinful: brutal, exploitative,
selfish, superficial. But just as surely, one's
homosexual orientation as well as another's heterosexual
orientation may be acted out in ways that are beautiful:
tender, considerate, mutual, responsible, loyal, profound.

Q2: The Scriptures at no point deal with homosexuality as an
authentic sexual orientation, a given condition of being.
The remarkably few Scriptural references to "homosexuality"
deal rather with homosexual acts, not with homosexual
orientation. Those acts are labelled as wrong out of the
context of the times in which the writers wrote and
perceived those acts to be either nonmasculine,
idolatrous, exploitative, or pagan. The kind of
relationships between two consenting adults of the same
sex demonstrably abounding among us -- relationships
that are responsible and mutual, affirming and fulfilling
-- are not dealt with in the Scriptures. Dealing with
those relational realities is one of the tasks we are
about in our time.