US passes a bill to outlaw partial-birth abortions

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 3/16/2003, 5:43 pm

Dammit, where's the "wild applause" emoticon when you need it?

Oh well, Alex, consider yourself applauded.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 3/16/2003, 5:45 pm

call me andrew · Post by **call me andrew** » 3/16/2003, 6:22 pm

alex. you are ever so right.

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 3/16/2003, 6:32 pm

Question for the pro-lifers out there (and yes, I'm being serious).

Assuming that a developing fetus is a human being with all the same rights as any other human, should mothers who have miscarraiges be indicted for manslaughter? I'm not being facetious. Say, if it's not a random occurrence, but is obviously caused by something the mother did - smoking, drinking, conceiving when she's over 40. Obviously, the result for the fetus is the same as if it were an abortion - it's dead. So if the mother miscarries, and it's her fault, intentional or no, shouldn't that be considered manslaughter?

the android · Post by **the android** » 3/16/2003, 6:37 pm

happeninfish wrote:I think your opinion would change greatly if you were a young girl who had been raped and was about to lose her body and her normal life because some governmental type who will never meet her decided that a cluster of cells is more important than she is.

Her body, her choice. That being said, I don't think abortions should be performed after the fetus has the ability to live seperately from the mother.... not that this should be the government's concern, anyway...

I completely agree.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/16/2003, 7:59 pm

happeninfish wrote:I think your opinion would change greatly if you were a young girl who had been raped and was about to lose her body and her normal life because some governmental type who will never meet her decided that a cluster of cells is more important than she is.

Her body, her choice. That being said, I don't think abortions should be performed after the fetus has the ability to live seperately from the mother.... not that this should be the government's concern, anyway...

I completely agree. However the odds of that are very, very, very, VERY slim.

*cough*dayafterpill*cough*

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 3/16/2003, 9:34 pm

You would be very surprised at how hard those are to get. You need to obtain them by prescription through a doctor, and I have had recent experience with someone who needed one and her doctor all of a sudden kicked into catholic-mode and started staring her down like she was asking for an abortion. He got very uppity on her and chastised her for her carelessness. He never mentioned this pill as a possibility - if she had not known about and asked for it repeatedly then she would not have been able to procure it. This was an adult... she was highly insulted by the doctor's inferences that she was acting like an irresponsible teenager.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/16/2003, 9:48 pm

Corey W Bush wrote: Do whatever to you can in your local community to put it on pharmacy shelves!

Yes, they are very hard to get. I'm not surprised because I know this. They should be on pharmacy shelves. They are NOT a form of abortion. They prevent the egg from ever being fertilized if taken within 24-48 hours after intercourse. The only problem with day after pills is that they sort of encourage teens to have sex. But condoms pretty much already do that (That is if they are smart enough to use SOMETHING at least)

starseed_10 · Post by **starseed_10** » 3/16/2003, 10:29 pm

Andrea wrote:I think your opinion would change greatly if you were a young girl who had been raped and was about to lose her body and her normal life because some governmental type who will never meet her decided that a cluster of cells is more important than she is.

Her body, her choice. That being said, I don't think abortions should be performed after the fetus has the ability to live seperately from the mother.... not that this should be the government's concern, anyway...

In my oppinion a "cluster of cells" may not be more important than the woman holding them, but the human life that would be lost is more important than preventing some physical changes to the woman's body, or most likely even her life being changed. At least she stills gets to have a life.
As far as if the girl is raped, I dont know the best way to respond to that, but for the usual abortion case that is my response.

starseed_10 · Post by **starseed_10** » 3/16/2003, 10:36 pm

In answer to Aerin, it depends on the case. if the woman was aware of the potential consequenses yet had an addiction to smoking/drinking and made an effort to stop, but just couldnt do it, then i wont say she should be charged. But if she was simply neglegent to warning and smoked or drank simply for the fun of it, then i might agree with a manslaughter charge.

As far as the over 40 thing, I think if you still can get naturally pregnant, and do so rightly, then a miscarriage shouldn't be viewed a manslaughter.

the android · Post by **the android** » 3/16/2003, 11:03 pm

starseed_10 wrote:
Andrea wrote:I think your opinion would change greatly if you were a young girl who had been raped and was about to lose her body and her normal life because some governmental type who will never meet her decided that a cluster of cells is more important than she is.

Her body, her choice. That being said, I don't think abortions should be performed after the fetus has the ability to live seperately from the mother.... not that this should be the government's concern, anyway...

In my oppinion a "cluster of cells" may not be more important than the woman holding them, but the human life that would be lost is more important than preventing some physical changes to the woman's body, or most likely even her life being changed. At least she stills gets to have a life.
As far as if the girl is raped, I dont know the best way to respond to that, but for the usual abortion case that is my response.

I didn't say that, that was Alex.

Joey · Post by **Joey** » 3/16/2003, 11:35 pm

The morning after pill is very easy to get .. very very easy .. walk in clinics will give them to you .. you have to speak to the doctor for a few minutes cuz they want to make sure you weren't raped or you don't need counselling or any sort .. same with at birth control clinics .. no prescription .. they hand you the pills once you speak with them and that's it ..

sandsleeper · Post by **sandsleeper** » 3/16/2003, 11:39 pm

don't you have to be under 18 though? at least i think in some states you do.

Joey · Post by **Joey** » 3/16/2003, 11:48 pm

Not in Canada .. I don't know about the States though .. they don't even ask your age

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/17/2003, 7:09 am

I believe they are still in the prescription phase in the US

starseed_10 · Post by **starseed_10** » 3/17/2003, 10:26 am

Andrea wrote:
starseed_10 wrote:
Andrea wrote:I think your opinion would change greatly if you were a young girl who had been raped and was about to lose her body and her normal life because some governmental type who will never meet her decided that a cluster of cells is more important than she is.

Her body, her choice. That being said, I don't think abortions should be performed after the fetus has the ability to live seperately from the mother.... not that this should be the government's concern, anyway...

In my oppinion a "cluster of cells" may not be more important than the woman holding them, but the human life that would be lost is more important than preventing some physical changes to the woman's body, or most likely even her life being changed. At least she stills gets to have a life.
As far as if the girl is raped, I dont know the best way to respond to that, but for the usual abortion case that is my response.

I didn't say that, that was Alex.

sorry.

the android · Post by **the android** » 3/17/2003, 4:13 pm

Don't worry about it. I'm never one to take credit for something that's not mine.