ClumsyMonkey.net

Posted: **2/26/2004, 3:24 pm**

robcore wrote: That passage in the bible wasn't meant to be negative or positive, it's meant to be fact. Some don't believe in some of your religions, so why should those religions dictate how they live their lives? Even god realizes they that they shouldn't, why can't you?

*sigh*

Again your taking it out of context.
The verse is saying that people wont agree with Christian beliefs and to be wary of that. It's not saying, be perfectly ok with that.

It's a warning not a recommendation on how to get along with everyone. The Bible is constantly stating that the world will disagree with Christians and hate them for their beliefs.

Cheers

Posted: **2/26/2004, 3:57 pm**

oh for the love of god.

okay, heres a little history lession.

Polygamy is concidered to be a religion. Everyone clear on that? Good. Because its also concidered to be illegal in all 50 states and across canada. Want to know why? Because since the 1800's its been concidered an excuse for men (because women have absolutely no benifits) to gain power, through greed and force. It promotes statutory rape, incest, physical, emotional and psychological abuse. If you haven't noticed its something that we think is morally wrong, yet you people are defending it. So don't try to claim that it has any elements of equality because there are countless present day cases around the world that can prove that wrong.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 3:57 pm**

I'm glad a gay marriage ban is being proposed because it's just one more reason to hate Bush. Everyone seems to forget all the stupid things bush does, like banning stem cell research. No one remembers that pre-9/11 stuff. The more stupid things he does before elections the better.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 4:08 pm**

Okay, I'll give you this, marriage was a religious term. That is where it was founded and it remains a sacrament in many different religions.

But in North American the government made is a legal issue. There are benifits and set backs to being married and a lot of paperwork. So while marriage will always remain a religious thing, that doesn't mean there are non-religious ceremonies. Many people are choosing to get married through the state which is fine but more choose to go through the church. Mainly because of tradition though. Unfortunately that means that we cannot force any religion to preform same sex marriages, the same way a church can deny a heterosexual marriage.

I think a few people have said something very wise here - Just because the church denounces it, doesn't mean the rest of the world has to.

And if you think that way, to me it sort of implies that because you believe something everyone else should. Obviously that isn't the intent but people are forcing their values onto someone unrelated. That isn't fair at all. I don't know of anyone who has been offended by a same sex couple, or found any logical reason to be against it.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 4:20 pm**

Random Name wrote:polygamy is essentially slavery of woman, only in different terms. Its a horrific practice that does happen in modern North America that is looked down upon so much that the media won't even give notice to its existance.

As opposed to the millions of people that show up for the gay pride parade.

I agree with Cass, and your rant puts you on the same level as conservative/religions/anti gay marriage people. All that bit about being "looked down upon so mych that the media wont even give notice" along with anti-polygamy laws are just the majority, which happens to include you, messing with the rights of other people when it is really none of your business. It is just two different minorities faced with the same problem. A lot of marriages turn out like crap, but as long as everyone involved agrees, I don't see where the problem is.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 4:28 pm**

Random Name wrote:oh for the love of god.

okay, heres a little history lession.

Polygamy is concidered to be a religion. Everyone clear on that? Good. Because its also concidered to be illegal in all 50 states and across canada. Want to know why? Because since the 1800's its been concidered an excuse for men (because women have absolutely no benifits) to gain power, through greed and force. It promotes statutory rape, incest, physical, emotional and psychological abuse. If you haven't noticed its something that we think is morally wrong, yet you people are defending it. So don't try to claim that it has any elements of equality because there are countless present day cases around the world that can prove that wrong.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 4:31 pm**

I read that. If a few people want to practice polygamy, that's their call, not yours. Legalizing polygamy wouldn't legalize statutory rape, incest, or abuse.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 4:42 pm**

The thing is, if you formed your own religion you do have the freedom to practice religious beliefs. But if your religion said that "you need to kill someone in the name of God" its still illegal. The state comes before religions. If your religion dictated that you must get stoned every day, then its still illegal and you arn't allowed to practice that. There is a line between believing and acting and polygamy crosses that line.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 6:05 pm**

Which is why polygamy has been outlawed in the Mormon religion: to follow the laws of the state and federal government. Whether you are trying to get gay marriage legal, trying to marry more than one woman, or trying to prevent gay marriages, you are not following the cardinal rule :live and let live. I know you're all going to think that I want to go marry some guy with two wives, but that's just not the case. I'm just trying to point out that minorities make the most noise. Just because millions want to be recognized in union doesn't mean that there are ten people to one that oppose it.

I have never heard that polygamy is a religion in and of itself. Maybe a cult, maybe practiced in many religions. Random Name, there's no need to get bitchy and on your high don't-you-fucking-get-it-horse.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 6:26 pm**

this is all I am going to say about Homersexuals being allowed the same rights to marry as a hetersexual couple.

I for one think that if you find that one person that you want to spend your life with, then you are truly blessed.

I always thought marriage was a commitment between 2 people. It shouldn't matter if they are 2 women, 2 men or 1 man #& 1 woman. It is so sad in this day and age that so many people are ignorant to the homosexual population out there. It really gets to me. I am not homosexual or have homosexual relatives. I have had homosexual friend through out the years and they are no different then any other human I know as far as marriage and being in a relationship goes. For almost 20 years I have done volunteer work with the GMHC(gay men's health crisis)-for AIDS more then anything. This organization relies on the help of thousands of vounteers whether gay, straight, black or white.

I ,for one, am for Homosexuals marrying. Why shouldn't two people be allowed to be together? It really sickens me how their constitutional rights are being ignored. It all boils down to religion. Unfortuantely there are more religious voters out there then not.

What really irks me is in this day and age you actualy have the term Starter Marriage How come it is okay for Hetersexuals to have a starter marriage( I think it is your first marriage under 5 years) and still say it santifies marriage, yet if two men want to be married and stay together till death do them part that ruins the marriage. It really is all BS to me. I think it is great what the mayor of San Fran is doing. Granting marriages to homosexual couples. I won't get into it cause it really gets to me how people are still so much against Gays.

The only thing different between me and a Lesbian is I have sex with men, she has sex with woman. End of story. In the end we are all the same. We are looking for that one person who makes our life complete.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 7:27 pm**

Random Name wrote:The thing is, if you formed your own religion you do have the freedom to practice religious beliefs. But if your religion said that "you need to kill someone in the name of God" its still illegal. The state comes before religions. If your religion dictated that you must get stoned every day, then its still illegal and you arn't allowed to practice that. There is a line between believing and acting and polygamy crosses that line.

I think you missed what I was saying. Yes, polygamy is illegal, but it is on precisely the same level as gay marriage. I think you just said that polygamy is wrong because it's illegal . . . correct me if I'm wrong. Here's a question for you, I'd like you to answer it intelligently and without pulling religion into it. When I say polygamy, you think three people who all consent to be married, or one person who wants to marry two people and they all consent. I'm not talking about it as a religion.

Consider these two scenarios. A gay couple wants to get married, but they can't because gay marriage is illegal, and three people want to be married because polygamy is illegal. Now, explain to me why the gay couple deserve the right to a marriage, but the others don't.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 7:34 pm**

I didn't get what you were saying about a starter marriage. Do you mean that people get married a bizillion times? Yeah that's wrong, but kind of besides the point.

Posted: **2/26/2004, 8:50 pm**

I have something i'd like to add in.

I've heard a few people say that those who are againts gay marriage are somehow againts gays.. or in other words dislike or hate gays. I guess i can see where that line of thought comes from but i'd like to make it clear that not everyone who's againts gay marriage is againt gay individuals. While i believe its wrong, hating gays or disliking them for their life style would be going againts my religion. Infact anyone who says they are a follower Christianity, Islam, ect ect and shows hate towards others, is going againts the very thing they stand for.

Posted: **2/27/2004, 12:30 am**

Cass wrote:
Abnd Yannic, marriage is a religious term. I don't care if people are gay and want to be united and even get the government benefits, but that's not marriage, sorry.

Love ya

See, I don't really agree with that. There is some form of marriage in almost every culture, if it is based on religion or not. Sure, the root of the term comes from religion in our day, but that's not soley true any more. Marriage is a religious thing for some people and not for others. I want to get married someday, and I'm sure as hell not going to do it 'in front of god.' That's not what it is to me. It's a ceremony that expresses that two people want to form a union of their lives, and it's quite sacred, whatever way you look at it. To me, calling two men/women having that same ceremony called something else isn't right. It seems to me as if if we do that, we are saying that isn't as important, and it's different, when it's really the same thing.

Like Cass said, I can't talk about polygamy, because I have never even met someone who beleives in this lifestyle.

Posted: **2/27/2004, 1:30 am**

psycho groupie wrote:
The only thing different between me and a Lesbian is I have sex with men, she has sex with woman. End of story. In the end we are all the same. We are looking for that one person who makes our life complete.

I disagree. Being gay isn't about how you act, although that could affect it. It's about attraction towards a certain sex. What you do with how you feel is a matter of personal choice. A person who chooses to be a celibate can be gay or straight but they're not sleeping around nor are they in a relationship.

Posted: **2/27/2004, 1:42 am**

i think i get what your saying.

But are you also one of those people that believe that all they need to do is deny the temptation of sin?

Posted: **2/27/2004, 9:40 am**

ALL marriage up until recent times had religious roots. If you don't care about the reiligious roots, why would you want to use the term marriage in the first place? Seems to me that gay unions are something unique in the first place, why do they want to be just like everyone else?

Posted: **2/27/2004, 10:05 am**

hey guess what,

IT IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS WHAT PEOPLE DO IN THEIR BEDROOMS.

i'm sorry, but the state has no fucking business being involved AT ALL in the marriage process, never mind telling certain people they can't get married. the only reason they are is because it's a nice cash grab for the municipal governments. it has nothing to do with "morality" and if you think it does, you're nuts.

the laws we have against gay marriage, polygamy, etc. are fucking fascist. period.

Posted: **2/27/2004, 10:43 am**

Cass wrote:ALL marriage up until recent times had religious roots. If you don't care about the reiligious roots, why would you want to use the term marriage in the first place? Seems to me that gay unions are something unique in the first place, why do they want to be just like everyone else?

1. Not true. There are many people who put a social status on marriage and do not put the religious status on it too. I have a friend who got married in the park by a Justice of the Peace, and is an admitted atheist. She still wanted to be able to marry her boyfriend, for the social recognition of their love, and the legal benefits.

2. I really like how you, a straight Mormon, have appointed yourself to speak for the whole of the gay community on this issue. I'm an agnotstic male from Nebraska, do I get to dictate how you, a Morman female, feels about marriage?

Posted: **2/27/2004, 10:57 am**

i find it ironic that people who vote are using the argument that "it's none of your business what other people do. hello? drugs, taxes, freedom.

sigh.

anyway, let gay people or three people or four people or twenty people get married. same sex, opposite sex, whatever.

fuck the government. thanks for coming out.

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