Another proud moment for America.

[Tattooed Angels]

Ugh. Sometimes I hate my country.

I don't hate my country. I still love AMerica. I just hate what the politicans and some narrowminded people are doing to it..

Sometimes I am ashamed to admit I am American because of it..

but luckily so there are alot of Americans who don't have the opinions of these people..

[closeyoureyes]

On the bright side, 66% disagree!

56% ...

Worst person at math, EVER

[Tattooed Angels]

On the bright side, 66% disagree!

56% ...

Worst person at math, EVER

well you know what they say. If you aren;t giving a 110% you aren't giving it your all..

[Rusty]

The survey indicated that 27 percent of the respondents said they supported requiring all Muslim Americans to register their home address with the federal government. Twenty-two percent said they favored racial profiling to identify potential terrorist threats. And 29 percent said they thought undercover agents should infiltrate Muslim civic and volunteer organizations to keep tabs on their activities and fund-raising.

Is anyone else reminded of how the whole holocaust thing started, after reading that? This is just sick. I can't belive the number is so high. But yes very very good it was only an opinion poll.

[reza]

Well I believe the reasoning in France was that the headscarfs may be distracting to other students. Kind of like how Catholic high schools make their students wear uniforms instead of "distracting" common clothing. Either way, it is not just America that is doing this. Maybe before these stats are posted we should look around the world for other examples. Dig enough and you'll find plenty.

Yeah but who in their right mind finds a turban or cross distracting? Would you stop reading or writing in the middle of class because you just couldn't get your eyes off of a cross or hijab? If so, maybe some Ritalin should be included on your shopping list the next time you go to the pharmacy.
After the French revolution, secularism became a huge part of the new republic, and it seems as though while the Frrench are trying to preserve their heritage, they're getting rid of a major building block of their history.

[happening fish]

seriously, banning tube tops would probably be more effective

[closeyoureyes]

Schools try to enforce dresscodes, but they SO do not get followed.

[xjsb125]

Yeah but who in their right mind finds a turban or cross distracting? Would you stop reading or writing in the middle of class because you just couldn't get your eyes off of a cross or hijab?

I could see that happening in this part of the country very easily. There are not very many people of Middle Eastern decent in this region. We do have have lots of people of Indian heritage, but it is rare to see anyone dressed in middle eastern dress. I am not at all saying that is ok, but merely showing how it could be distracting in an area that is not very racially or religiously diversified.

[happening fish]

Eh, it'd be a novelty for a week, and then you WOULD be religiously diversified

[Waiting to Exist]

Yeah, the effect would wear off quickly enough, and then, in theory, future turban-wearers would be fairly ignored, because turbans are old news by then.

[reza]

Yeah, like here in Toronto, (which is pretty darn diverese) if you were to see a person walking around with a turban, you probably wouldn't give them a second look. But the person to wear the turban in Toronto probably got some looks because of it.
It's like having a new person in school, the first week everyone's like "look, a new kid!" but then after a week, people forget that they're new.

[nelison]

Yeah, like here in Toronto, (which is pretty darn diverese) if you were to see a person walking around with a turban, you probably wouldn't give them a second look. But the person to wear the turban in Toronto probably got some looks because of it.
It's like having a new person in school, the first week everyone's like "look, a new kid!" but then after a week, people forget that they're new.

First off, I am of the belief that what someone wears can be distracting to others and even to the individual. I know dress codes for catholic schools are enforced strictly, as well as in my own school, which was public, students were often sent home for wearing tube tops, or short skirts, etc.

I think the problem with the headscarf is that it can obstruct a child's view in the classroom. I know that there are ways around this but I don't think the muslim students would appreciate being at the back of the class. It's not about just walking around the halls, there are practical reasons within the classroom.

The survey indicated that 27 percent of the respondents said they supported requiring all Muslim Americans to register their home address with the federal government. Twenty-two percent said they favored racial profiling to identify potential terrorist threats. And 29 percent said they thought undercover agents should infiltrate Muslim civic and volunteer organizations to keep tabs on their activities and fund-raising.

Is anyone else reminded of how the whole holocaust thing started, after reading that? This is just sick. I can't belive the number is so high. But yes very very good it was only an opinion poll.

Might I remind you that Canada turned away Jewish refugee ships simply because "none is too many". Canada is guilty of racism just as much as any nation. So before we go bleating about how sickening this is, it might be a good idea to take a look at ourselves as well.

[reza]

First off, Head scarves won't obstruct anyones view, they're tied tightly up against ones head, a turban would however, so I'll go with that.
These things just work out, I've sat behing numerous kids with turbans, it didn't end up being much of a problem at all. I noticed it for like a day, then it was jsut a matter of positioning yourself so it doesn't get right in your way.
I think that enforcing the freedom of religion and expression is much more important than having to angle yourself in your seat to look at the blackboard.

[Rusty]

Did I ever say Canada didn't do that stuff? Did I say all of America was like that? I just said that it reminded me of how the Holocaust was started, and I made a comment that the high number was sickening. If that opinion survey had been done in Canada or Mexico or anywhere and the number was still that high, I'd still say it was sickening.

[reza]

I forgot to mention this in my last post, Jaques Chirac did not ban the headscarves (and other religious symbols) because they were a distraction to students. They were banned because he wanted to make France a more secular country.
I got this from the Associated Press:

"French President Jacques Chirac asked parliament on Wednesday for a law banning Islamic head scarves and other religious insignia in public schools, a move that aims at shoring up the nation's secular tradition, despite cries that it will stigmatize France's 8 million Muslims.
Chirac said he also wanted to open the way for businesses to impose the same ban for reasons of safety or customer relations.
"Secularism is one of the great successes of the Republic," Chirac said in an address to the nation. "It is a crucial element of social peace and national cohesion. We cannot let it weaken." '

[nelison]

Sorry Rusty, your post was just the one I quoted because it summed up everyone else's posts. A lot of the stuff that's been said has been anti-American, and that was the reason for my comment.

Kermit, Why is freedom of experession and religion in a classroom more important than a child's ability to comfortably learn? You may have been able to alter your position to see the board, but you have had to comprimize your focus in the classroom to some degree. You may have become used to it, but why should anyone have to adjust themselves to accomodate another individual? You are paying for the same service, and therefore should be entitled to the same deal as everyone else.

Furthermore, let's say I joined a religion where it was common to wear a top hat or sombrero as a religious decoration. Should these be allowed? According to your previous post, you would simply have to adjust your self and cope with the situation out of respect for religion. Someone can have their beliefs, that's fine with me, but once those beliefs infringe on my right (in this case my right to learn in comfort) I think we need to draw a line.

And before you say "oh it's not hard to simply shift in your chair," my point is that you shouldn't have to. Each child should have the same advantages as the next and in my opinion your situation discribed above is a disadvantage.

EDIT: outposted (yes i know it was by 10 mins lol)

[nelison]

I forgot to mention this in my last post, Jaques Chirac did not ban the headscarves (and other religious symbols) because they were a distraction to students. They were banned because he wanted to make France a more secular country.
I got this from the Associated Press:

"French President Jacques Chirac asked parliament on Wednesday for a law banning Islamic head scarves and other religious insignia in public schools, a move that aims at shoring up the nation's secular tradition, despite cries that it will stigmatize France's 8 million Muslims.
Chirac said he also wanted to open the way for businesses to impose the same ban for reasons of safety or customer relations.
"Secularism is one of the great successes of the Republic," Chirac said in an address to the nation. "It is a crucial element of social peace and national cohesion. We cannot let it weaken." '

And what's wrong with asking that in a government funded school, religious affiliated clothing cannot be worn? At least he's being fair to everyone., although it just so happens that it affects muslims more than other religious individuals.

[saman]

I think the problem with the headscarf is that it can obstruct a child's view in the classroom. I know that there are ways around this but I don't think the muslim students would appreciate being at the back of the class. It's not about just walking around the halls, there are practical reasons within the classroom.

i have a fair bit of friends who wear a hijab. i've worn one countless number of times, and trust me, they don't obstruct anyone's view; for neither the person wearing it nor for other people.

i think the reason people may feel uncomfortable with hijabs and turbans might be that people might think, having heard on the news and stuff about gender repression and stuff, that people who wear them are forced to do so. everyone i know who wears one does so by choice though. also, if you see a head covering for the first time and don't understand the reasons behind it, it might be unnerving to see something so odd.

kinda funny, about the distraction thing, considering hijabs were originally introduced to make women more modest, and make it so that people (men) didn't get distracted by womens' hair. forcing a woman not to wear one could really be considered a violation of their modesty.

turbans i don't know the whole story about, not knowing a lot about sikhism, but i think turbans are a convenient way to control their hair, because they're not supposed to cut it.

[reza]

Sorry Rusty, your post was just the one I quoted because it summed up everyone else's posts. A lot of the stuff that's been said has been anti-American, and that was the reason for my comment.

Kermit, Why is freedom of experession and religion in a classroom more important than a child's ability to comfortably learn? You may have been able to alter your position to see the board, but you have had to comprimize your focus in the classroom to some degree. You may have become used to it, but why should anyone have to adjust themselves to accomodate another individual? You are paying for the same service, and therefore should be entitled to the same deal as everyone else.
Furthermore, let's say I joined a religion where it was common to wear a top hat or sombrero as a religious decoration. Should these be allowed? According to your previous post, you would simply have to adjust your self and cope with the situation out of respect for religion. Someone can have their beliefs, that's fine with me, but once those beliefs infringe on my right (in this case my right to learn in comfort) I think we need to draw a line.

And before you say "oh it's not hard to simply shift in your chair," my point is that you shouldn't have to. Each child should have the same advantages as the next and in my opinion your situation discribed above is a disadvantage.

EDIT: outposted (yes i know it was by 10 mins lol)

Are you being serious? If it isn't making it impossible to see the blackboard then why go ahead and take away from someones personal identity.
It isn't fair to both the children who have to wear the turban, and the children who sit behind them.
There isn't anything wrong with secularism (I for one am all for it, in moderation), but it is also important to preserve ones heritage, identity and religion.
You might as well say that kids can't have afro's because it will make it difficult for children behind hte kid to see the board.
Chirac has forced these girls and boys to choose between a future and their god, that's what's wrong with what he's doing.
I think that you're just arguing now, for the sake of arguing.

[happening fish]

why should anyone have to adjust themselves to accomodate another individual?

What the hell are you talking about? That's a basic premise of living in a society! Why the fuck should the kid with a headscarf have to "adjust themselves" to accomodate white society? Just stop talking, before you dig yourself any deeper. It's a damn scarf.