Axtech wrote:American troops have sometimes mistaken celebratory gunfire for hostile fire. Such a case occurred in 2002, when Afghan officials said 48 civilians at a wedding party were killed by a U.S. airstrike. The U.S. Central Command later said the airstrike was justified because American planes had come under fire.
Mistaken!! I remember this incident like any other......
I just don't think they take the proper preparation. I think it should be relatively easy to see a wedding party vs. hostle firing from anti-Americans.
Maybe not on FIRST glance, but with the proper development of tactics.
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
Axtech wrote:Telling them they have to change their culture, for any reason, because the US military is present is called assimilation.
no it's not. it's a saftey measure. i would not recomend telling Iraqis to never shoot in the air to celebrate, only when there is a military force present. once gone they, if they choose, can shoot in the air again. how many more weddings have to be blown to hell before precautionary measures like not shooting in the air will be realized? so far three that i know of. telling them to change their religion, would be assimilation. telling them to speak english would be assimilation. telling them to not shoot in the air because they might be mistakenly killed is a precautionary measure.
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road. my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load. gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
You can't change their culture, even temporarily. That would be like if Canada built up a military force infinately stronger than the US's, invaded the US to "liberate" you from the tyrannical grasp of Bush, and told you that no one could go to church on Sunday (that's the day that we plan to do our weekly liberation lessons), no one could wear a dress at a wedding (because that just happens to be our soldier's uniform of choice; wouldn't want any confusion) and no one could use a knife or fork for dinner (how can we trust you with that?). Firing guns at a wedding is as commonplace there as all these other things. We can not take away their traditions just because we don't have them, and apparently can't tell the difference between a wedding with shots being fired randomly into the air and a hostile force using tactical strikes at a helicopter with AKs.
what a horrible analogy, but i'll play along with it.
ok, no church on sunday, here's a concept, going to church on a friday or a wednesday, there are after all 6 other days out of the week. but if you really wanted to go to church on a sunday, and you lived close to the mexican border, you could cross and go to church on sunday in Mexico. Back in the day, Mexico outlawed catholisism. if you look at the US border, it's speckled with towns with saint names. (San or Santa is spanish for saint)San Jose, San Miguel, San Diego, San Lucas, San Antonio, Santa Maria, San Manuel, San Isidro, San Perlita, San Juan, ect. that's because on easter sunday, the Catholic population in Mexico would come over to the states and go to easter mass. to accomodate the inflow, they built these churches out in the middle of nowhere and cities in the name of the church's saint were born. the same thing would happen on the mexican border. once you cross that border, you canadians will have an international incident. and have you ever hear the mexican national anthem? they're just looking for a fight these days.
the dresses. no one is telling Iraqis how to dress. that would be assimilation.
no knife or fork. seeing as you fear an american with a fork in his hand, i cannot comprehend how the hell you sucessfully invaded the US in the first place. but ok, once again, i'll play along. there's a thing called the spork, and chop sticks work, if you know how to use them, personally, i'd lose 20 pounds before i got the hang of it. (but that would be a good thing these days)
so go to church on thursday or go to Mexico (Canadians don't have the balls to invade Mexico), women are going to have to wear pant suits to look professional, and use the spork and/or chop sticks if you know how to use them and guess what, canadians will not kill you. Minor inconveniences, but once these Canadiens rid us of Bush and they go back to being as peacefull as they ever were things will be normal again.
let me ask you something. if these people at this wedding did not shoot up in the air, would they still be alive?
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road. my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load. gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
Reno, you completely missed my point. My point is that changing their customs because soldiers are too fucking thickheaded to figure out the difference between a wedding celebration and a direct attack is rediculous, and that if the US was forced to change their customs, you would absolutely refuse. After all, you have freedoms right? What happened to the "free" Iraq that Bush is claiming? Not allowed to continue with their customs for fear of ending up in a pill of dismembered corpses on the back of a truck because of an "unfortunate accident".
your in a plane, looking for a safeway house near the syrian border. you see shots fired in your general location. what are you suppose to do land the plane and check to see if they were shooting at you or celebrating a wedding? the pilots didn't know there was a wedding going on.
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road. my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load. gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
So, shoot first ask questions later? Sounds good. Very democratic. Very free. Very liberated.
Perhaps he should have left the area, marking down where he saw the shots, and then had someone investigate as to what was going on...? If the US is going to free these people, they have to be given some rights.
Axtech wrote:Reno, you completely missed my point. My point is that changing their customs because soldiers are too fucking thickheaded to figure out the difference between a wedding celebration and a direct attack is rediculous, and that if the US was forced to change their customs, you would absolutely refuse. After all, you have freedoms right? What happened to the "free" Iraq that Bush is claiming? Not allowed to continue with their customs for fear of ending up in a pill of dismembered corpses on the back of a truck because of an "unfortunate accident".
were not chaning anyones customs. this is about shooting up in the air. those bullets have to come down, what if it comes down on someone's head? are you still going to support their traditional right to shoot in the air? is the person that shoots in the air innocent of wrong doing even though he hurt someone? For the sake of protection both US troops and their own, it would be better to not shoot up the sky.
Is the US forcing them to speak english? Is the US forcing them to convert to christianity? is the US taking away their traditional vestments in exchange for "proper attire"? If there are people in a sacred shrine shooting at soilders, are we shelling and desecrating that shrine?
tell me what other custom(s) have we taken away from them? my point is that if we can do without certain traditions for the sake of not being killed, then so can they.
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road. my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load. gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
Axtech wrote:So, shoot first ask questions later? Sounds good. Very democratic. Very free. Very liberated.
Perhaps he should have left the area, marking down where he saw the shots, and then had someone investigate as to what was going on...? If the US is going to free these people, they have to be given some rights.
no it's more like shots have been fired, fire back. you can't just leave a place where shot have been fired, what if that was a group of people aiming for that plane. that plane is suppose to head back, and send an investigative unit out there? by that time they'll be gone.
Iraqis have rights, as it is they protest frequently. shooting a gun in the air is not a right that even i have.
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road. my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load. gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
I'm not saying that the US is assimilating them in every way. I'm saying that if that custom was to be taken away, it would be isolated assimilation.
And yes, I do think that taking away their traditions is wrong. You can't go into a country claiming to be freeing the people, and then trying to change their way of life.
I'm not saying that the US is assimilating them in every way. I'm saying that if THEIR RIGHT TO SHOOT A GUN IN THE AIR IN CELEBRATION was to be taken away, it would be isolated assimilation.
And yes, I do think that taking away their THEIR RIGHT TO SHOOT A GUN IN THE AIR IN CELEBRATION is wrong. You can't go into a country claiming to be freeing the people, and then trying to change their way of life.
it's just one little change in their lives, one change that would help protect themselves and us. one temporary change, and all of a sudden were trying to assimilate them or change them?
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road. my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load. gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
"one little change" can easily escalate. The point is that their culture has to go unscathed for this invasion to be even remotely justified. It's bad enough that they came sweeping in the way they did (that is, with bloody violence), but it would be so much worse if the culture ends up destroyed.
because they wern't allowed to shoot up in the air in celebration their civilization is on a slippery slope of destruction? don't you see the benefit it terms of saftey?
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road. my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load. gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
but that would mean there were shots fired after they were all killed. that's impossible.
they shot first!
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road. my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load. gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
the whole reason the chopper came is because they shot a gun.
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road. my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load. gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
I remember this incident like any other......
