Posted: 2/20/2004, 5:24 pm
so does 174 million include wars?
i.... don't..... think..... so?
who knows. it's a dumb graphic. the government sucks.
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Posted: 2/20/2004, 5:25 pm
Posted: 2/20/2004, 9:57 pm
yeah.
just seems like that would be hard to calculate. You'd think they'd keep it covered too well.
just seems like that would be hard to calculate. You'd think they'd keep it covered too well.
Posted: 2/21/2004, 1:03 pm
people suck
Posted: 2/24/2004, 11:25 am
Here we go again....
Governments aren't really the causal force behind wars. Its just a large grouping of people who under leadership begin to fight for whatever cause (religion, resources, invasion, fued) I think wars are just easily summed up because governments make them large scale and make them easily identifiable. How big does a skirmish have to be before its recognized as a "war".
Wars are just disagreements handled with violence. That's nothing new.......its just gotten more destructive with technology.
Government is a useful tool........without it we would indeed have trouble surviving. Government isn't bad here (compared to some other countries)...........its just mishandled a lot......humans are easily corruptable........but at least its a system designed to give structure and opportunity.(which it does rather well)
Doug, how do you view the world apart from government? I really can't see it working. Look how bad people can be with government. No police, no health care, no budget, no social programs, no infrastructure, no funding, no laws, no education.......is that what you want?
Governments aren't really the causal force behind wars. Its just a large grouping of people who under leadership begin to fight for whatever cause (religion, resources, invasion, fued) I think wars are just easily summed up because governments make them large scale and make them easily identifiable. How big does a skirmish have to be before its recognized as a "war".
Wars are just disagreements handled with violence. That's nothing new.......its just gotten more destructive with technology.
Government is a useful tool........without it we would indeed have trouble surviving. Government isn't bad here (compared to some other countries)...........its just mishandled a lot......humans are easily corruptable........but at least its a system designed to give structure and opportunity.(which it does rather well)
Doug, how do you view the world apart from government? I really can't see it working. Look how bad people can be with government. No police, no health care, no budget, no social programs, no infrastructure, no funding, no laws, no education.......is that what you want?
Posted: 2/24/2004, 11:33 am
Governments/civil leaders are required to start wars - if i want to go to war with Texas, for instance, what am i going to do? call all my friends? the thirteen of us will go to war? what if they don't want to come? how will i make them?
if i was the government, i would say "we're going to war with Texas!" and then i would command my armies to invade and they would. period.
do you see? human beings don't just decide to go to war. they are led to war.
for the last time, and i know this is hard to grasp, but here it is: the fact that the government does good work does not justify the government! if a poor man robs and murders me to feed his family and live in my house, is he still doing wrong?
government is not a tool. it is an opressor. demockracy is not working. we need a better system.
if i was the government, i would say "we're going to war with Texas!" and then i would command my armies to invade and they would. period.
do you see? human beings don't just decide to go to war. they are led to war.
for the last time, and i know this is hard to grasp, but here it is: the fact that the government does good work does not justify the government! if a poor man robs and murders me to feed his family and live in my house, is he still doing wrong?
government is not a tool. it is an opressor. demockracy is not working. we need a better system.
Posted: 2/24/2004, 11:53 am
of course you do realize, Texas would kick ass on all invading forces. 
Posted: 2/24/2004, 12:14 pm
You mean like the Alamo?
Posted: 2/24/2004, 12:32 pm
like fighting in the summer when it's hotter then hell and the canucks melt.
speaking of the alamo, that movie is suppose to come out soon, and i sure as hell hope they do it right. as in crokett surrendered and was killed.
speaking of the alamo, that movie is suppose to come out soon, and i sure as hell hope they do it right. as in crokett surrendered and was killed.
Posted: 2/24/2004, 1:38 pm
Doug said,
Given that war refers to violent confrontation between two states......yes, I would be inclined to agree that wars are decided upon by government. But if you get past the defintion and look at it in a more basic approach, war is basically the act of two groups or more settling a dispute with violence. War is given the distinction of being patriotic because people "serve and protect", but really its seems a weak approach to solving problems. War in essence is just violence between two parties.....it existed long before government was a word. Does war really require government when you undress it all?............no........you just need men and a reason to fight.
and yes, if say 1000 of you and your long list of friends decided to take action against the state of Texas, it could be referred to as a war......just a very small one....I guess you would have to represent yourself with some kind of cause and what not......(and it may not be recognized by our government as a war because it probably wouldn't be glorious enough or whatever).
I have my problems with government Doug. Make no question......but its more about capitalism and globalization which motivate inequities around the world. I don't like our consumerism or approach to the world's environment. Those things scare me......governments too, as many seem poorly run or corrupt. But still......in some parts of the world governments work well when functioning under a capitalist mode, which help promote better standards of living. I wonder if you look around and see what government is there to do other than "take away our liberties"......good fucking luck without it man. I personally don't trust my fellow man because people can convince themselves of whatever they want and justify murder or anything else with the same "me first" attitude. You would have no protection save your ability to use violence. It just seems that it would be moving backwards in time when really governments were designed to aid in problems related to population, health, safety, and economics.
Governments/civil leaders are required to start wars - if i want to go to war with Texas, for instance, what am i going to do? call all my friends? the thirteen of us will go to war? what if they don't want to come? how will i make them?
Given that war refers to violent confrontation between two states......yes, I would be inclined to agree that wars are decided upon by government. But if you get past the defintion and look at it in a more basic approach, war is basically the act of two groups or more settling a dispute with violence. War is given the distinction of being patriotic because people "serve and protect", but really its seems a weak approach to solving problems. War in essence is just violence between two parties.....it existed long before government was a word. Does war really require government when you undress it all?............no........you just need men and a reason to fight.
and yes, if say 1000 of you and your long list of friends decided to take action against the state of Texas, it could be referred to as a war......just a very small one....I guess you would have to represent yourself with some kind of cause and what not......(and it may not be recognized by our government as a war because it probably wouldn't be glorious enough or whatever).
I have my problems with government Doug. Make no question......but its more about capitalism and globalization which motivate inequities around the world. I don't like our consumerism or approach to the world's environment. Those things scare me......governments too, as many seem poorly run or corrupt. But still......in some parts of the world governments work well when functioning under a capitalist mode, which help promote better standards of living. I wonder if you look around and see what government is there to do other than "take away our liberties"......good fucking luck without it man. I personally don't trust my fellow man because people can convince themselves of whatever they want and justify murder or anything else with the same "me first" attitude. You would have no protection save your ability to use violence. It just seems that it would be moving backwards in time when really governments were designed to aid in problems related to population, health, safety, and economics.
Posted: 2/24/2004, 5:12 pm
Doug said
Yes he is still doing wrong.....that was a pretty terrible comparison to use. The fact is the government does do a lot of "wrongs', but we differ on approach. I view that, even with all of the governments flaws (which i don't support) I would still rather have our democratic system than no government. No government?? What does that entail? Who will build roads? Who will be a doctor, a lawyer, a cop? Do we need these things? Will we roam as savages feasting on each other in a desperate effort to get food? Will Doug have his true freedom then?
for the last time, and i know this is hard to grasp, but here it is: the fact that the government does good work does not justify the government! if a poor man robs and murders me to feed his family and live in my house, is he still doing wrong?
Yes he is still doing wrong.....that was a pretty terrible comparison to use. The fact is the government does do a lot of "wrongs', but we differ on approach. I view that, even with all of the governments flaws (which i don't support) I would still rather have our democratic system than no government. No government?? What does that entail? Who will build roads? Who will be a doctor, a lawyer, a cop? Do we need these things? Will we roam as savages feasting on each other in a desperate effort to get food? Will Doug have his true freedom then?