Letter to the editor

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 6/23/2003, 8:58 pm

freedom is more important than your beliefs.

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 6/23/2003, 9:04 pm

Galaxia, you're being a hypocrite. If you find homosexuality so disgusting and amoral, don't give yourself a pat on the back because you "love them" despite that.

Love isn't despite. You don't love someone "despite". If someone does something you find so offensive (although I cringe to ask you how homosexual sex affects you or your morals in any way, seeing as how you don't engage in it), it's condescending and disgusting to say, "I find who and what you are abhorrent, but I love you anyway." Bullshit.

If you hate homosexuality, go ahead. But don't try to be all high and mighty about it. That's almost even worse.

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 6/23/2003, 9:09 pm

Aerin, there's a couple of people I would very much like for you to meet and educate.

Galaxia · Post by **Galaxia** » 6/23/2003, 9:09 pm

joe_canadian wrote:freedom is more important than your beliefs.

Sure it is. The constitution says that church and state should be separate. From that standpoint, making laws againts same sex marriges should be wrong. I didn't say those were my beliefs, it's just what the bible says. I was just pointing out that having a religious dislike for homosexual activity does not = homosexual hate and certianly does not warrant hate crimes. Hating me because I'm christian is just as prejudiced as hating a someone because they are a homosexual. Love everybody! Yay!

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 6/23/2003, 9:16 pm

freedom isn't more important than religious beliefs because of the constitution, or any document. those are powerless pieces of paper with shapes drawn on them we attach meaning to. freedom is more important than religious beliefs because I have the right to choose how I want to live my life, whether or not you like it, provided I'm not hurting anyone but myself.

but I don't hate you, don't worry.

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 6/23/2003, 9:21 pm

Josh's right. You have a right to your beliefs, Galaxia, however much I may disagree. However, you don't have a right, as an American, or as a <i>human being</i> to impose your beliefs on anyone other than yourself.

Freedom is what keeps us from turning into the Taliban.

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 6/23/2003, 9:23 pm

I concede that you didn't imply you would force your beliefs on anyone Galaxia, this is just a very very sore subject with me right now.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 6/23/2003, 9:30 pm

joe_canadian wrote:I have the right to choose how I want to live my life, whether or not you like it, provided I'm not hurting anyone but myself.

Dude, you would like the Wiccans

"An ye harm none, do what ye will"

:lol:

Galaxia · Post by **Galaxia** » 6/23/2003, 9:33 pm

Aerin wrote:Galaxia, you're being a hypocrite. If you find homosexuality so disgusting and amoral, don't give yourself a pat on the back because you "love them" despite that.

Love isn't despite. You don't love someone "despite". If someone does something you find so offensive (although I cringe to ask you how homosexual sex affects you or your morals in any way, seeing as how you don't engage in it), it's condescending and disgusting to say, "I find who and what you are abhorrent, but I love you anyway." Bullshit.

If you hate homosexuality, go ahead. But don't try to be all high and mighty about it. That's almost even worse.

Hypocrisy
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.

If I were being a hypocrite, I would say "I'm just as nice to homosexuals as I am to heterosexuals." and then commit an anti-homosexual hate crime. That would make me a hypocrite. I'm not perfect. Not anywhere close to being perfect.

Love is despite. Love is all about 'despite' and forgiveness. My parents love me despite the fact that I mouth off occasionally and dissapoint them a lot, although I try not to. Homosexual acts don't affect me or my morals at all. I'm not trying to be high and mighty about anything. I'm sorry if I come across that way. If a person wants to be homosexual thats fine. It's not my place to judge anyone. I wasn't trying to *force* my beliefs on anyone. I'm not out to change anyone's beliefs, just sharing mine, since all of you guys seemed so free with sharing yours.

Aerin, could you be biased against christians? And if so, how is that any different than someone biased against homosexuals? Prejudice sucks. Period.

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 6/23/2003, 9:33 pm

hehe, I've met nothing but arrogant "Wiccans" in my life. they claim to be misunderstood and then find spells of the net to threaten people with. :roll:

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 6/23/2003, 9:35 pm

Ahem. Those are not real Wiccans, they are fanciful and misguided teenagers. I dislike them as much as you... probably more.

So.. I am arrogant then, Joshy?

Think before you speak

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 6/23/2003, 9:36 pm

muh? I know they're not real Wiccans, it angers me that they claim to be.

sowwy, what do you mean?

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 6/23/2003, 9:37 pm

< Wiccan

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 6/23/2003, 9:39 pm

ohh! didn't know, that's cool. I respect actual Wicca a great deal.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 6/23/2003, 9:43 pm

heh so now the tune changes! heh, just alexin' ya, joshy

Galaxia · Post by **Galaxia** » 6/23/2003, 9:44 pm

Aerin wrote::nod:

Josh's right. You have a right to your beliefs, Galaxia, however much I may disagree. However, you don't have a right, as an American, or as a <i>human being</i> to impose your beliefs on anyone other than yourself.

Freedom is what keeps us from turning into the Taliban.

I'm not *imposing* my beliefs with anyone. I don't recall forcing my beliefs upon anyone. You shared your beliefs, I shared mine. There is no need for the animosity I'm receiving from you. And I do agree with you Joe_Canadian. We have the right to live our live ther way we want to; I choose to *try* to live my life up to God's standards. I fail in more ways than one....but I'm sure everyone can agree to the idea that no one is perfect.

joe_canadian · Post by **joe_canadian** » 6/23/2003, 9:46 pm

happeninfish wrote:heh so now the tune changes! heh, just alexin' ya, joshy

eek, I hope I didn't offend you. you know I was just expressing contempt towards kids that pose as Wiccans right?

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 6/23/2003, 9:52 pm

Perhaps I took your comment the wrong way, Galaxia. Like Josh said, it's a touchy subject. I apologize for overreacting and assuming.

I've always wondered, though, why homosexuality is frowned upon by Christians. I know it says as much in the Bible, but the Bible says a lot of other things that aren't practiced today (Leviticus is my favorite book - chock full of when and how it is appropriate to stone people to death, why one shouldn't eat pork, and how much one should ask when selling his daughter into slavery). The most "reasonable" answer I could get out of my high school religion teacher (a nun) was that homosexuality itself isn't sinful (because people don't choose what they desire), but that homosexual sex was sinful, since it couldn't produce babies, and sex, apparently, exists only for baby-production.

However, when I asked why it wasn't then sinful for a knowingly infertile heterosexual couple to have sex, she had no answer. Seems like pretty much the damn same thing to me.

Besides, why would God create desires in people that it was sinful to act upon, while in other people, similar desires are a-okay? Why would he preordain people to be miserable and unfulfilled because they couldn't act on what he created them to be - gay? And furthermore, if I believed such things, why would I want to worship such a cruel god?

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 6/23/2003, 9:52 pm

of course honey, i was only teasing

like i said, i prolly hate those kids more than you, because they're bringing shit down on the name of something that i respect.

Galaxia · Post by **Galaxia** » 6/23/2003, 10:16 pm

Aerin wrote:Perhaps I took your comment the wrong way, Galaxia. Like Josh said, it's a touchy subject. I apologize for overreacting and assuming.

I've always wondered, though, why homosexuality is frowned upon by Christians. I know it says as much in the Bible, but the Bible says a lot of other things that aren't practiced today (Leviticus is my favorite book - chock full of when and how it is appropriate to stone people to death, why one shouldn't eat pork, and how much one should ask when selling his daughter into slavery). The most "reasonable" answer I could get out of my high school religion teacher (a nun) was that homosexuality itself isn't sinful (because people don't choose what they desire), but that homosexual sex was sinful, since it couldn't produce babies, and sex, apparently, exists only for baby-production.

However, when I asked why it wasn't then sinful for a knowingly infertile heterosexual couple to have sex, she had no answer. Seems like pretty much the damn same thing to me.

Besides, why would God create desires in people that it was sinful to act upon, while in other people, similar desires are a-okay? Why would he preordain people to be miserable and unfulfilled because they couldn't act on what he created them to be - gay? And furthermore, if I believed such things, why would I want to worship such a cruel god?

Teehee, all the stuff in the Mosaic Law was done away with when Jesus came to town. It was replaced by the new commandments, "Love your neighbor as you love yoursefl," and "worship only the true God" God didnt create these desires. According to the Bible, humans were created perfect. The whole Adam and Eve and the forbidden fruit was what made humans imperfect. These desires are part of the Ademic sin, human imperfection. God does not preordain people to be miserable. "Time and unforseen occurances befall us all". God doesn't plan every part of every humans lives. He molds us around his purpose, as to fulfill prophecy, but he doesnt sit down and say "Hmmmm....i think this little girl will die of brain cancer and this boy will grow up to kill people." That would be cruel. I can totally understand where you are coming from. I know some churches say when someone dies that "God needed another angel in heaven". It doesn't say that in the bible.