ClumsyMonkey.net

well I think we can agree that during birth is too late. I belive many say that when the baby's brain is developed, it is too late.

Axtech wrote:I think you've got pro-choice wrong there. Pro-choice means that it's up to the individual. What does that have to do with vegitarianism?

Sorry, but pro-choice is referring to abortions, and that is exactly what I meant to say. If I had been thinking of something else, why would it be in this topic?

I like people who are pro-choice and also vegetarians who think animals have rights. When I know someone is pro-choice and a vegetarian for the sake of the animals, I have a few questions for them:

Are you a vegetarian? Yes. Are you pro-choice? Yes. Would you eat a fetus?

It gives them something to think about.

In reference to the topic of this thread, partial birth abortions is the sickest thing to do to a baby. How can anyone justify a doctor taking a pair of scissors and cutting a baby's head apart to kill it? It's fucking wrong. If a woman wants an abortion, so be it, she can have it, but not when the baby is coming out of her. At that point, you keep the kid or you put it up for adoption, but killing it is wrong.

I'm against abortion (usually), but pro-choice.

i think once the brain is fully functioning thta's to late, before i'm still a little wishy washy but they're not truly knwoing anything yet, which is the same as taking a tree life, it's alive but not sentinent

Abortion is sick. The D&E method, is by far the most horrific





The method they are describing in the article is found below.




In September, 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years or experience, was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice," she didn’t think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:

" I stood at the doctor’s side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who was six months pregnant. The baby’s heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen. The doctor delivered the baby’s body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby’s body was moving. His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and inserted them into the back of the baby’s head, and the baby’s arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction, like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up. Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby’s brains out. Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy. It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."


Sick yet?


Man, if people would stop being such whores, this shit would not happen. The only people I feel some sympathy for are rape victims. Blech....people are so selfish. Makes me wanna be a hermit. There are so many different options. If you don't want it, put it up for adoption. Damn.

This issue is a little more involved than just 'if you get pregnant it's your own fault'

I personally do not agree with abortion as a form of birth control.

However consider this, a girls first menstruation can happen anywhere between 10 to 15.25. Secondly, early onset puberty has been happening more often recently so that the average is closer to the low end of that than the high end.

Imagine finding out your 10 or 11 or 12 year old daughter is pregnant. What do you decide to do? What if that birth is going to be a risk to her health because she is so small? She wasn't raped, or assaulted, the act was consensual, but wouldn't you want the option of consenting to an abortion? Or do you want to resort to the days when it happened in back alleys?

Obviously rape is a factor as some of you have mentioned, but what if a woman who has irregular periods doesn't realise she's pregnant and misses the window for an abortion in the first trimester?

Not exactly likely, but if I were the unfortunate person to end up in the situation I sure as hell want the choice of what to do with my body.

Having said all that, I don't agree with partial birth abortions except in extreme cases. And to clear something up, I don't think they're talking about full term births, I think some people took it that way. Unless there is something seriously and dangerously wrong with the pregnancy, I think there is a point when you are too late to change your mind.

After all that ranting, all I'm saying is that it's my body and it's my choice, and I'll be damned if someone else is going to force their morality on me and make me go through something like having a baby because they say it's the right thing to do. Would I personally ever have an abortion? Not under and normal circumstance, but if I ever have a daughter I want it to be her choice, not some Bureaucrats.

Stace wrote:Imagine finding out your 10 or 11 or 12 year old daughter is pregnant. What do you decide to do? What if that birth is going to be a risk to her health because she is so small? She wasn't raped, or assaulted, the act was consensual, but wouldn't you want the option of consenting to an abortion? Or do you want to resort to the days when it happened in back alleys?

It's called adoption. If your kid gets knocked up that early, maybe you're a bad parent.

Not exactly likely, but if I were the unfortunate person to end up in the situation I sure as hell want the choice of what to do with my body.

Since when do you have the right to decide who lives and who dies? Last time I checked that was God's job. In my own personal opinion, I think that is a mighty selfish attitude to have. It's true, it is your body, but when it comes down to terminating someone else's life to uphold your decisions, that is where it crosses the line.

*********edit**********

Sorry if it seems like I am attacking you, I'm not. Don't take any of this on a personal level. I'm expressing my opinion on that viewpoint, not you.

I am so disgusted

Stace wrote:After all that ranting, all I'm saying is that it's my body and it's my choice, and I'll be damned if someone else is going to force their morality on me and make me go through something like having a baby because they say it's the right thing to do. Would I personally ever have an abortion? Not under and normal circumstance, but if I ever have a daughter I want it to be her choice, not some Bureaucrats.

i agree

Galaxia wrote:

Stace wrote:Imagine finding out your 10 or 11 or 12 year old daughter is pregnant. What do you decide to do? What if that birth is going to be a risk to her health because she is so small? She wasn't raped, or assaulted, the act was consensual, but wouldn't you want the option of consenting to an abortion? Or do you want to resort to the days when it happened in back alleys?

It's called adoption. If your kid gets knocked up that early, maybe you're a bad parent.

you can't always say that. things happen. don't point the finger unless you know the whole story

no offence to anyone, but the "its my body, i can do what i want" arguements pretty much make me sick.

It is NOT your body that's being murdered. its a human being completely apart from yourself. To make the decision of killing another Human Being because you dont want to go through a pregnancy, (which in 90+ percent of cases you wrongly brought upon yourself) is immoral and should be illegal.

As far as the whole rape thing, i'm not going to touch on that right now.

OLPMazurite wrote:

Galaxia wrote:

Stace wrote:Imagine finding out your 10 or 11 or 12 year old daughter is pregnant. What do you decide to do? What if that birth is going to be a risk to her health because she is so small? She wasn't raped, or assaulted, the act was consensual, but wouldn't you want the option of consenting to an abortion? Or do you want to resort to the days when it happened in back alleys?

It's called adoption. If your kid gets knocked up that early, maybe you're a bad parent.

you can't always say that. things happen. don't point the finger unless you know the whole story

If a 10, 11, or 12 year old is having consentual sex with another person, then she's a slut. You didn't do your job as a parent to teach her that her legs don't need to be opened all the time to let whatever guy go in and knock her up. You failed as a parent if she's pregnant at such a young age.

^definitely a sign of bad parenting

Oh please. You can only do so much as a parent. Is anyone here going to stand up and say that they live their lives exactly the way their parents want them to? Kids think for themselves, and they don't learn everything they know from their parents. It's disgusting to blame parents for what their children do.

Secondly, a blastocyst is made up of about 150 cells. It has the chance to BECOME a human being, but there is no way to define it AS a human being presently. It cannot think. It cannot live on its own. It cannot feel pain. It isn't ANYTHING but a group of cells with genes that say "if everything goes right, this group of cells may become a human being." A group of cells cannot be treated as more important or more worthy of our respect than the woman who carries it. Until much later, it is nothing but a parasite, simple as that.

First-trimester abortions aren't killing a baby. They are terminating a pregnancy. There was never any "baby" involved. It sickens me when people try to make women feel guilty about "killing" something that meets almost none of the requirements to qualify as ALIVE, let alone HUMAN.

Second- and third-trimester abortions are more complicated, and in some cases, even immoral. That doesn't mean we should legislate against them.

Exactly, Aerin.

Aerin, I agree with you on first tri-mester abortions. If a woman feels the need to get one, then she may get one, it's her choice. I suppose that would make me pro-choice, eh?

And here's a thought for you. If your 10-12 year old daughter is going out and having sex with people, odds are you're not around. Now, if you were around, you'd be there to make sure yout daughter isn't going out with guys and having them run trains on her or anything. If you're not around to make sure your kid isn't out having sex, then you're not doing your job as a parent. You should look deeper into the context. Words don't always teach a kid everything, actions are needed. If you're not there to make sure the kid is not out sleeping around, then you're failing as a parent. That's it, that's the end of the story.

Kids are incredibly sneaky, though. And parents often believe that their child wouldn't possibly do anything like that, so they believe the kid when they say they're going to a friend's to study when they're really going to an orgy. My parents were very good, and taught me very well, but I still got away with a lot of things they never knew about. Not having wild sex at 12, but things like not really going where I told them I was going, and so on. All kids go behind their parents' backs occasionally. That doesn't mean they neccessarily have bad parents. Naive, perhaps. But it isn't necessarily the parents' FAULT. Unless you think that parents should constantly be hovering over children and never give them the chance to learn and make mistakes (and do stupid things they'll regret later) on their own.

I'd prefer that people hover over kids than having kids getting pregnant at 12 and snorting coke and drinking beer at some one's house. Maybe that's just me...

True. But there's also such a thing as too much hovering. I know a lot of people whose parents were so crazily overprotective that the kids went NUTS with alcohol, sex, drugs, etc. as soon as they got to college.

It's a fine line parents have to walk between too much parenting and not enough.