interesting observation

Susan · Post by **Susan** » 5/1/2003, 6:43 pm

Read: stupid white men.

"There was a principal who wouldn't let a girl start a feminism club, because then she'd have to make way for the male chauvanist club."

It's funnier if you read it.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 5/1/2003, 7:02 pm

Again, I am not advocating chauvenism, and I won't. All I am saying is if there's a group of women bitching about things that should never be issues and have too loud of a voice to ignore, then where's the male group? NOW says they're fighting for women's equality, but they don't concentrate their funds or attention to something that matters like equal pay, but rather to bullshit like golf.

If you consider that fighting for equality, there should be a group for men that fights for equal rights, correct? I am not saying chauvenism, so don't come back and say that I am chauvenistic again, ok? If the Augusta National club allows females to join, then there should be a group taking every single group that only allows women only and fighting their policies, should there not? Feminism bitches for equal female rights, but I guarantee they'd raise hell if a man tries to join an all-female gym or something.

And to Suzan, am I a stupid white male because I preach the same things that feminism preaches? I mean, if your sex can scream what the want, then why the hell can't men? Yet another double standard. You're just proving my point.

starseed_10 · Post by **starseed_10** » 5/1/2003, 7:06 pm

No Longer Running Smooth wrote:And to Suzan, am I a stupid white male because I preach the same things that feminism preaches? I mean, if your sex can scream what the want, then why the hell can't men? Yet another double standard. You're just proving my point.

i dont recall her suggesting you were a stupid white male? I dont even think she said anything negative about this.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » 5/1/2003, 7:07 pm

I was refering to the book Stupid White Men by Michael Moore. Sorry about the confusion, I meant no offense to anyone.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 5/1/2003, 7:09 pm

Ohhhhh, if I knew that, then I wouldn't have said that. Sorry, I thought you were just saying my views were that of a typical stupid white male.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » 5/1/2003, 7:10 pm

That's ok. I should have mentioned that it was book or something.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 5/1/2003, 7:12 pm

No, I overracted, I take the blame on this one.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 5/1/2003, 7:38 pm

For the third time Alan i'm not calling you a chauvinist, and chauvinists are no better or worse than feminists, they are simply the opposite.

emily · Post by **emily** » 5/1/2003, 7:43 pm

Well, I really think they made all-women gyms because women were either embarrassed working out in front of men or had very low self-esteem and didn't really want to be seen in spandex by the opposite sex. I don't know if the men of Augusta (or whatever that golf course is called) feel more comfortable or something without women there, but the way I see it, it's different. I don't consider myself a feminist, although my mother probably was during the Gloria Steinem time and tells me I have to keep my last name when I marry like she did.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 5/1/2003, 7:44 pm

But my point is to not oppress women or whatever you call it like a chauvenist does, I just feel that if feminists call for equal rights, then there should be men out there fighting for their equality too, should there not?

emily · Post by **emily** » 5/1/2003, 7:46 pm

I guess most feminists feel nervous still because men are naturally the more dominant gender, and although I think the golf thing is taking it a little too far, I really don't give a shit about that, some things I agree with.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 5/1/2003, 7:51 pm

I am all for important issues for feminism. I mean, if it would change the lives of women for the better on a large scale, then by all means, feminists should go ahead and try to get the job done. But when they take their views to a golf club that no one will ever be able to golf at, common male or female, then she's gone too far. That is why I have lost all respect in feminism, and feel that if they want equality, they have to have perfect equality in every situation, even if it doesn't benefit women. Feminism is not absurd, and if they want to take it to that level, then men have every right to take it to the same level, even if men are the "dominant sex." I mean, they want equality, then men should have it too, right?

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 5/1/2003, 9:20 pm

the only ist or ism should be humanist or humanism. :nod:

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 5/1/2003, 9:22 pm

Exactly Reno. That's the best comment I've heard like...all day.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 5/1/2003, 9:24 pm

you gotta listen to yourself man, your on today! :nod:

*stands and applauds*

One-Eye · Post by **One-Eye** » 5/1/2003, 10:49 pm

So... people are offended by reality? If you want to be in a relationship, you've got to lower your standards. My perfect guy looks like Elijah Wood, has the computer genius of Steve Jobs, the personality of Conan O'Brien, and the wit of Jon Stewart. Am I going to find a guy like that? Of course not. We've all got to lower standards. And relationships are expensive. That's reality, and it works both ways for men and women.

emily · Post by **emily** » 5/2/2003, 5:37 am

well, the guy I'm prospecticing right now (as in he really exists) looks kind of like Elijah Wood, except a bit taller and chubbier. It must be the teeth, nose, and eyes.... and he does have the personality of Conan O'Brien.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 5/2/2003, 10:02 am

You're missing the entire point here. As it was said on the first page, that if a man were to say the same thing in a greeting card, women would have such a huge problem with it. And like the reactions that came directly after seeing the message, you people overreacted like it was some great sexist tragedy. But after it was clearly stated the card replaced "woman" with "man" it became acceptable and logical. Funny, isn't it?

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 5/2/2003, 2:16 pm

the chicks i want to date have the looks, personality, smarts and wit of

THEMSELVES! because i believe that being a celebrity doesn't make you better

emily · Post by **emily** » 5/2/2003, 3:36 pm

yeah, I guess it's just the sort of thing where it's funny, but if it happened to you, it wouldn't be.