holy fudging poop

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 2/13/2003, 2:50 pm

probably. i'll look.

Dabekk · Post by **Dabekk** » 2/13/2003, 3:40 pm

for the past three years I've been noticing how the u.s. is getting closer and closer to facism, and this is just another step in that direction.

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 2/13/2003, 4:28 pm

USA PATRIOT act # 1
http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 2/13/2003, 5:25 pm

OK, I have the attention span of a puppy dog, so can some one sum up what is going on with the Patriot Act? I would try to read it, but I would end up finding a pen fascinating after about 30 words. Please help me.

areusad831 · Post by **areusad831** » 2/13/2003, 5:48 pm

i am with alan a pen cap would become quite intriguing after a minute of reading that. what is it all about

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 2/13/2003, 5:57 pm

ok, basically, what happened was after the 9/11 thing happened, the usa government passed a draconian bill allowing them to invade the privacy of amerikans in order to seek out "terrorists"

this bill gutted the first, fourth and fifth amendmants. it allowed the government to hold people under the term "enemy combatant" and therefore deny them access to trial or legal counsel, and in some cases the detained did not even know the charges that they were being held under.

this new bill has further developed the patriot act. after patriot act II is passed, the fourth and fifth amendmants will be worthless and all amerikans will be in danger of being labeled a foreign power or enemy combatant, yanked off the streets and never seen again.

i kid you not.

Post by **faninor** » 2/13/2003, 6:24 pm

I bet the US Supreme Court will still have the ability to label it as unconstitutional and erase it from law . . .

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 2/13/2003, 6:31 pm

negative. it will now be illegal to release information pertaining detainees

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 2/13/2003, 6:45 pm

Hmm... This sounds oddly close to the way the tyrannically evil Jagang treats the people under his command in the Sword of Truth novels...

liam · Post by **liam** » 2/13/2003, 6:46 pm

where are you to say that it says the word fuck and then we change it to fudge!

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 2/13/2003, 8:23 pm

ok, basically, what happened was after the 9/11 thing happened, the usa government passed a draconian bill allowing them to invade the privacy of amerikans in order to seek out "terrorists"

this bill gutted the first, fourth and fifth amendmants. it allowed the government to hold people under the term "enemy combatant" and therefore deny them access to trial or legal counsel, and in some cases the detained did not even know the charges that they were being held under.

this new bill has further developed the patriot act. after patriot act II is passed, the fourth and fifth amendmants will be worthless and all amerikans will be in danger of being labeled a foreign power or enemy combatant, yanked off the streets and never seen again.

i kid you not.

Thats not entirely true. Neither Act deals with US citizens. These Acts are only for non-citizens that are involved with a terrorist group. In fact it even states that it doesn't even apply to people who nay be terrorists if they aren't proven to be part of a formal group. This is no way infringes on US citizens and therefore is not against the constitution. I for one don't see a problem with anything I have read so far. The terrorists that are here aren't citizens and therefore don't have the same rights as citizens do, especially if they are plotting terrorist attacks. It also states that any agency that wants to surveil, tap, trace, etc anyone must notify the FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveilance Act) Court of who they are tracking and why. This is by no means a blank check to pick up anyone on the streets as Doug would like you to believe. If you really care about this you should read both acts rather than trusting someone to tell you how they interpret it. You have no right to argue if you don't read it. I laughed when the two individuals above asked what it said. Obviously you don't care.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 2/13/2003, 8:37 pm

Are you guys telling me, you disagree with this?

SEC. 102. SENSE OF CONGRESS CONDEMNING DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ARAB AND MUSLIM AMERICANS.
(a) FINDINGS- Congress makes the following findings:
(1) Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, and Americans from South Asia play a vital role in our Nation and are entitled to nothing less than the full rights of every American.
(2) The acts of violence that have been taken against Arab and Muslim Americans since the September 11, 2001, attacks against the United States should be and are condemned by all Americans who value freedom.
(3) The concept of individual responsibility for wrongdoing is sacrosanct in American society, and applies equally to all religious, racial, and ethnic groups.
(4) When American citizens commit acts of violence against those who are, or are perceived to be, of Arab or Muslim descent, they should be punished to the full extent of the law.
(5) Muslim Americans have become so fearful of harassment that many Muslim women are changing the way they dress to avoid becoming targets.
(6) Many Arab Americans and Muslim Americans have acted heroically during the attacks on the United States, including Mohammed Salman Hamdani, a 23-year-old New Yorker of Pakistani descent, who is believed to have gone to the World Trade Center to offer rescue assistance and is now missing.
(b) SENSE OF CONGRESS- It is the sense of Congress that--
(1) the civil rights and civil liberties of all Americans, including Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, and Americans from South Asia, must be protected, and that every effort must be taken to preserve their safety;
(2) any acts of violence or discrimination against any Americans be condemned; and
(3) the Nation is called upon to recognize the patriotism of fellow citizens from all ethnic, racial, and religious backgrounds.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 2/13/2003, 9:38 pm

i think i need a new planet to live on.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 2/14/2003, 9:47 am

Anything I can do to speed up that process let me know fish.

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 2/14/2003, 10:43 am

detainees at camp misery in gitmo.

http://www.observer.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,866168,00.html - a nice article about an innocent man who is being tortured. live outside the US and think your western demockracy will protect you? think again.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/terror030213_falsealarm.html - the code [glow=orange]orange[/glow] terror alert is based partly on false information aquired by an terror suspect. this article calls him a liar. based on the above, i think he just said something so that the CIA would turn off the flood light over his bed.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 2/14/2003, 3:18 pm

maninthemarble wrote:"enemy combatant"

where exactly can i find this phrase in the 1st patriot act? cause i can't find it? Section # please.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 2/14/2003, 7:33 pm

Venom wrote:Anything I can do to speed up that process let me know fish.

You're so clever, sweetheart. "Eliminate the Opposition" and all that, eh.

areusad831 · Post by **areusad831** » 2/14/2003, 9:49 pm

he calls you fish i find that amusing.

we like alex, we dont like you :mrgreen:

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 2/15/2003, 12:34 pm

enemy combantant, i believe, is a term new to the 2nd patriot act.

the first patriot act brodens the definition of terrorist in section 802 (?) i believe. it's around there anyways.

basically criminals are now terrorists, terrorists are now enemy combantants.

did you read through the area where it says gathering information, even if it's legal, can now be called an act of terrorism? that's going to make pretty much of of my favorite websites into terrorist groups.

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 2/15/2003, 2:08 pm

makes me pretty proud to be a Canadian thats for sure.
Everytime you turn on the TV it's more and more propaganda about why the US should go to war, and how this is the best thing for North America.
Here in Canada we just recently sent a fair amount of troops to Afghanistan to help clean up the mess the Americans made when they shifted focus from Al-Qaida to Iraq.
I do know there are still American troops in Afghanistan but I think we can all agree that the US has shifted its focus greatly and now the entire world has forgot about this country that only a year ago was on the lips of everyone. It's sad and I'm proud to say that my country is trying to do something about that rather than join the "freedom fighting" of the US and Britain.
The Bush government is simply trying to beat the system in anyway possible. If another country were to do what they were doing then Bush would be sure to use any means necessary to stop it. He says Saddam is oppressing his people, but yet hasn't stopped to look at the millions of people in his own country who are living under the same conditions compared to the public norm (I am not trying to say that the two are directly comparable because they are two totally different societies, but in each society there is a large number of the population which is greatly below the standard of living that is needed to survive in their own country)

you may not agree, actually most of you probably won't but I just thought I'd throw in my two cents...