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Nikki, I don't think you understand that the fishing industry is all that Atlantic Canada has. They live on giant rocks. In the middle of the sea. With terriible weather. There is no other way for them to make a living- they're isolated, they can't grow anything, and poverty is rampant. Fishing is the industry that makes those peoples' lives possible. They do what they need to in order to support themselves and their families.

So... move?

I don't support the murder of anything. Period.

nikki4982 wrote:So... move?

I don't support the murder of anything. Period.

That's a perfectly logical solution.. It's not exactly easy to tell the 500,000 some odd people that live in N.F.L.D and Labrador that they have to move. Like Alex said, I don't think you completely understand the dependency upon the fisheries that exist in the maritime provinces. We're not dealing with an area that has a booming economy.. The fishing industry is literally what allows some families to survive and put food on the table. This isn't anything new, a reliance on the fishing industry on the east coast is something that dates back to the 1600s.

Ahhhh such a touchy subject! I'm not a vegetarian and I'm not anti hunting. Perhaps my western upbringing and the fact that we own a ranch? Either way, people get pissed off. Nobody wins and nobody is right.

I win.

·Suthy· wrote:

nikki4982 wrote:So... move?

I don't support the murder of anything. Period.

That's a perfectly logical solution.. It's not exactly easy to tell the 500,000 some odd people that live in N.F.L.D and Labrador that they have to move. Like Alex said, I don't think you completely understand the dependency upon the fisheries that exist in the maritime provinces. We're not dealing with an area that has a booming economy.. The fishing industry is literally what allows some families to survive and put food on the table. This isn't anything new, a reliance on the fishing industry on the east coast is something that dates back to the 1600s.

and i also agree with what kathy said on the page previous.

trying to protect the seals is important, i agree, as is trying to protect anything. but there's so much worse animal slaughtering going on that happens so often, it's completely ignored. as great a cause as this is, perhaps its importance is a little overblown, especially with paul mccartney's involvement. and the emphasis of the animals' cuteness in that article raises questions on the real intent of the protest or the image it projects, though i'm in no position to accuse them of anything.

Ok, except for Robbo.

Well, I'm off to bash in some seal skulls!



*waves*

okay, but seriously. Population preservation is a HORRIBLE excuse for hunting, particularily when this preservation is to support another form of hunting (yes, fishing = hunting).

Besides, what do you think has a bigger affect on cod population? Seals eating to stay alive or over-fishing?

Actually they've done about equal damage.

The whole thing about the East coast is that its literally a completly different culture than what is found in the rest of North America. And if you're going to have a enthnocentric perspective that everything should be modern, than don't even bother.

There is an entire generation, an entire population that lives in Newfoundland that knows virtually nothing other than fishing. Until the late 70's-80's all people did here was fish. So lots of people in my generation and the generation above us have Fathers that did nothing but fish their whole lives. As in dropped out of school at grade 3 and lived on a fishing boat until it was taken away from them.

Yes, clearly these 100, 000 odd people should just move to solve all their problems.

Oh wait. They tried that.
The government tried to relocate lots of smaller communities of like 50 people to bigger ones just for the sake of progress, and it ended up just being a disaster.

The fact that we depend upon the fishery is not something that you can just cut ties with because its mean. It is the only reason this island is populated and its the only thing sustaining it (not counting a 2 billion dollar check) And going back to the whole seal hunting thing that started this all. Its not even a common thing around here. Its not like every winter every Newfoundlander jumps on a ice float and starts killing seals. Its about as common as a moose burger stand. Which is rare. And bizarre. But it exists. I mean, I don't even think I've talked about the seal hunt in about three years or so.


...but yeah. I don't even know what I'm arguing anymore.

Okay, but if a society depended on the killing and selling of black people to survive, do you think it would be rational to argue that they should keep doing it because that's all they know? of course not

It's obviously not practical for everyone to move, but this is an industry that can't sustain itself indefinately (over-fishing is called OVER-fishing for a reason ... also, do you have any stats on how many fish seals eat? because I find it hard to believe that they eat as many fish as are taken out by all the fishing that goes on along the coast of north america ... and if too many fish are being consumed by seals and humans combined, we should be the ones to cut back, not seals who have no control over it), and it certainly doesn't mean that Nikki has to agree with that way of life.

No, but it means that you are critical of another culture because you are thinking of it based on your cultures point of view.

You have to stop looking at this place as an industry. Obviously industry came in and over-fished everything in the grand banks, but the same communities that have been here since the 1500's are here today. It isn't all they know. Its who they are. Its all we can do.

Newfoundland was its own sustaining nation for a long time until it joing Canada. Then it got shit on by Canada for expanding the fishery. And then closing it when it became too much.
What else do you expect people to do but defend what they had and what they have left?

I'm not looking at Newfoundland as an industry. I'm looking at the fishing industry as an industry.

Just because it's all you have doesn't make it right.

Besides, disapproving of another culture isn't something new, nor is it something that is neccessarily wrong. If a Newfoundland had been founded upon the slave industry, would you defend the continuation of slavery? Would you think it wrong for people to critize slavery in Newfoundland if that were the case?

I'm not saying that we should start a civil war and put a stop to the fishing industry.

But that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it as a way of life.

Exactly. It's embedded in the culture. We can't just simply tell people that they have to find an alternative means of making a living because...

a) They don't know anything else other than the fisheries

b) There isn't really anything else

It's easy to say cut back. Just like it's easy to say that an African nation should stand up on its own and sustain itself. It's a nice ideology, but it's not possible. I can understand that the industry cannot sustain itself indefinetly. Eventually, if cod stocks don't replenish, there's going to be a much larger problem than the one that currently exists... But for now, there's really no other option.

damn, out-posted lol

Exactly, you don't agree. And that's about all there is to it.

And killing seals is not even remotely comparable to killing black people! Maybe killing horses or dogs or bunny rabbits...

the seal hunt (and other such hunts that do exist) are becoming a necessity thanks to the idiocy of the human race.

Henrietta wrote:Exactly, you don't agree. And that's about all there is to it.

And killing seals is not even remotely comparable to killing black people! Maybe killing horses or dogs or bunny rabbits...

haha, I know it was an extreme example. But my point was that it doesn't matter if it's "a part of the culture" or not. If it's wrong, it's wrong.

Where are you getting slavery? It’s a completely different topic. Not even good as an analogy. Human rights violations are not at all relatable to primary resources.

And I'm not trying to get you to agree with it. Hell, I don't even eat fish. But if you want to understand why it’s a part of our culture you have to know where it comes from.

There is this whole social perspective that you are totally missing.
(I'm not sure if it is still a tradition) In another country, it’s popular and traditional for a groom to take the sheets off his bed the day after the wedding and hang them outside his window. That way the stains they made on the sheets and bloodstains will be there to show off how he took his wife’s virginity. I'm sure you hear that and think it’s a horrible practice and should stop. But that’s only because it’s not common here. If it is right and honorable in their culture, why do you have the right to say its wrong?

P.S. Killing Seal is definitely comparable to killing a black person: