Scientists create animals that are part-human

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/3/2005, 8:39 am

For me this isn't even about killing. It's about creating. And until we can know with some degree of certainty (actually, given the benefits of such experimentation, I'd say that even once we know with great probability) what we're creating, we shouldn't be doing it at all.

Random Name · Post by **Random Name** » 5/3/2005, 10:35 am

But how do we know unless we experiment?

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/3/2005, 10:55 am

But this kind of experimentation won't discover anything about the state of consciousness. Until we understand the conscious state, putting human brains in other bodies is pretty risky.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 5/3/2005, 11:27 am

That's what they said about the shuttle launch...

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 5/3/2005, 11:56 am

If I'm not mistaken, scientists plan on destroying any animals that display even the slightest amount of human behaviour. The want to nip this at the earlieest signs.

I'm all for experimentation. Human's may never truly understand human consciousness. Look at the work of Freud and how his ideas were supposed to be a foundation for the human psyche, but since then nearly all of his theories have been disproven. I don't think we'll ever know the truth behind the human psyche, but we might be able to learn more about the brain and its development by with the help of animals. It's the next step in science and we need to progress, even if there are some risks involved. "high risk = high reward"

Dabekk · Post by **Dabekk** » 5/3/2005, 12:51 pm

cool!

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 5/3/2005, 5:03 pm

Random Name wrote:
One Shot Juanita wrote: Our species is branching out to those less capable of defending themselves.

What are you getting at here?
If your against animal testing then say that. What you just said happens with almost every other organism on the planet.

These experiments are not ideas people thought of for the soul purpose of hurting animals, they are for genetic testing. And of course people test on animals because they are lesser dominant life forms. Thats the whole point.

If you don't think we should be preforming any experiments on animals at all, say that. If you don't think this experiment is necessary in furthering scientific research, say that. If you think something should be done for animal rights, say that. But really, big animals killing smaller animals is called nature, that has nothing to do with human experimentation.

Well I meant basically ALL of the above...
I agree that it happens to ALL organisms, but you'd think by acknowledging this fact, you'd be in support for humans to stop it. Yes, it is nature, but as humans we're supposedly far superior to any other being, and with that, we have the knowledge and experience to not need to be fucking around with animals. It, quite plainly, is messed up. I can tolerate when someone wants to eat meat, fine, go for it, but this is a whole other level of disrespecting animals.

What happens if there is something higher than humans, they take the same stupid and horrible approach to treating humans as we treated animals, take your brain and out stick you in a cage with someone elses brain and genes to see what happens? I don't think you'd appreciate it.

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 5/3/2005, 8:14 pm

Here's a question though that Campbell already brought up. What happens if testing on animals cures some of the world's worst diseases? I don't know about you but I value human life more than the life of a rat.

If some aliens come along and decide to dissect us in the name of their science then I guess the best we can do is fight it, otherwise good ol' Darwinism kicks in. It's the law of nature. The strong wipe out the weak. There is nothing wrong about this either.

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 5/3/2005, 8:36 pm

I can agree.. in some instances when its being done as humanely as possible, bio-medical testing for horrible diseases, is ok. But it seems like they're just messing around with brains and animals. This is where I disagree. If it was aimed towards a plausible research goal, like for Cancer, or a degenerative disease, I can understand it.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 5/4/2005, 6:56 am

Stem cell scientist Irving Weissman said his experiment could provide unparalleled insight into how the human brain develops and how degenerative brain diseases like Parkinson’s progress.

Post by **xjsb125** » 5/4/2005, 9:29 am

The article also stated that they had made paralyzed rats walk again. I'm really at a crossroad on how I feel. It really terrifies me, but at the same time I see some of the value that could come from it. I don't neccessarily like it, or agree with it, though.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/4/2005, 10:32 am

My thoughts exactly.

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 5/4/2005, 4:49 pm

xjsb125 wrote:The article also stated that they had made paralyzed rats walk again. I'm really at a crossroad on how I feel. It really terrifies me, but at the same time I see some of the value that could come from it. I don't neccessarily like it, or agree with it, though.

I feel the same way about that particular part.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 5/4/2005, 11:31 pm

We don't know, and there's no way of knowing, yet we're still experimenting with it.

How can you learn without experimenting?

I really can't say how I feel about this one way or another. Animals have souls, and therefore we shouldn't cause them undue harm. But animals aren't human, and I value human life much more highly than that of a rat or a a dog. If it makes peoples' lives better, and cures disease, I have to admit, I am for it. But we have to keep the animals in mind.

My physiology professor was always telling us about experiments they did with rats to see if they could figure out how the human brain develops. His was specifically gender related, but in his lab they did all kinds of research on rats. Some of their research pin pointed what hormones from your pituatary stimulate the release of other hormones throughout your body. Knowing these things improves our lives. If we didn't have this knowledge, we couldn't give insulin to diabetics. Experimenting is learning. If aliens come and try to do the same to us, we will just have to fight back as best we can.

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 5/5/2005, 6:36 am

I love the fact we're discussing impending alien invasions :lol:

Nice post Cass. That's how I feel in that we need to do what is best for humans. I agree wholly that we need to be careful about what we're doing, but if there is rhyme and reason behind experiments, I believe we need to push forward.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/5/2005, 8:11 am

Cass wrote:
We don't know, and there's no way of knowing, yet we're still experimenting with it.

How can you learn without experimenting?

Like I said before, my beef is with the possibility of screwing around with human consciousness without knowing the consequences. And these experiments won't tell us anything about human consciousness, so we won't learn anything about that danger through these experiments.

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 5/5/2005, 10:54 am

Are we trying to find out anything about human consciousness? Or simply how we might be able to combat mental ilnesses?

Human consciousness would only be screwed around with if a human subject was used for experimentation, which we've had in the future and have seen the effects of. It would be amazingly interesting to discover that brain cells can be taken from one animal and put in another. Cells obviously specialize, and perhaps there's the possibility that they may be able to adapt in the new body. I don't even know if this is possible since I've read only a couple chapters of a psych book pertaining to the structure of the brain.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 5/5/2005, 12:10 pm

I love the fact we're discussing impending alien invasions

What can I say, I'm an X-Phile :lol:

I really don't think we're anywhere near putting a human soul/conscience in an animal. And if we did, I daresay we'd know once we did, and know not to do it again. We're so far from really understanding the brain that I wouldn't worry too much about it.

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 5/5/2005, 4:47 pm

J-Neli wrote:I love the fact we're discussing impending alien invasions

.

IT COULD HAPPEN

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 5/5/2005, 7:05 pm

J-Neli wrote:Are we trying to find out anything about human consciousness? Or simply how we might be able to combat mental ilnesses?

Human consciousness would only be screwed around with if a human subject was used for experimentation, which we've had in the future and have seen the effects of. It would be amazingly interesting to discover that brain cells can be taken from one animal and put in another. Cells obviously specialize, and perhaps there's the possibility that they may be able to adapt in the new body. I don't even know if this is possible since I've read only a couple chapters of a psych book pertaining to the structure of the brain.

But we don't know if perhaps human consciousness could be tied to the physical brain. Growing a human brain in a sheep could very well create a very messed up human mind.

And no, these experiments aren't trying to find out anything about human consciousness. But I think we should try to learn something there first, before experiments affecting consciouness are performed.