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So, spending eternity in suffering doesn't scare you at all? Does it really matter whether you like it or not, if it's even a possibility?

no it doesn't scare me. could be because i don't believe in the version of 'hell' other people believe in though.

people are suffering daily now .. everyday .. what makes suffering through eternity any different then suffering through this fucked up world?

Just becausee you refuse to believe certain things doesnt mean your excused from it. You can refuse to believe you should go to jail for murder but you'll still go if you commit one. The same goes for eternity.

(Were assuming there is a God in this example.)

Joey wrote:no it doesn't scare me. could be because i don't believe in the version of 'hell' other people believe in though.

people are suffering daily now .. everyday .. what makes suffering through eternity any different then suffering through this fucked up world?

Because there is both good and bad in this world. Not just bad.

Joe Cool wrote:Just becausee you refuse to believe certain things doesnt mean your excused from it. You can refuse to believe you should go to jail for murder but you'll still go if you commit one. The same goes for eternity.

(Were assuming there is a God in this example.)

You can't seriously use an example like that.

Maybe it was a bad example but what I'm saying is, if there is a God and you do have to follow a certain path, refusing to follow that path because you dont believe it doesnt excuse you from the consequences.

If I end up in hell that will only prove my point about how messed up this idea of 'god' is. To think there's some higher being who picks and chooses who's worthy of entering 'heaven' ...

I've already broken rules of the bible so I guess I'm doomed either way. Doesn't matter if I'm a good person, I broke the laws .. send me to hell.

I just don't believe that. It's unthinkable to me.

Actually, I don't see the problem with that example. If someone grew up in, for example, Ontario, and was raised to believe that murder is okay, and has no consequences (concerning law and society, at least), they will still go to jail if they kill someone regardless of their belief.

Axtech wrote:Actually, I don't see the problem with that example. If someone grew up in, for example, Ontario, and was raised to believe that murder is okay, and has no consequences (concerning law and society, at least), they will still go to jail if they kill someone regardless of their belief.

commiting murder can be proven .. it's a fact you can touch, feel, see etc .. has nothing to do with beliefs.

i can't see this 'god' .. i don't see facts, i can't touch faith, feel it etc .. therefore it can't be as easily proven.

it's one thing to argue against the act of murder that you can see.. and something completely different to not trust in something you can't see or prove.

No no no. The example is used to give objectivity to it. Murder is an example that we can all understand because it exists around us in a tangible way. The point is to look at if there is a God (a law against murder) that your own belief won't matter because the consequence of hell (jail) will occur regardless.

Joe Cool wrote:

Joey wrote:no it doesn't scare me. could be because i don't believe in the version of 'hell' other people believe in though.

people are suffering daily now .. everyday .. what makes suffering through eternity any different then suffering through this fucked up world?

Because there is both good and bad in this world. Not just bad.

explain that to the people who only see the bad in this world and are only subjected to the harshness of life, not the good in it.

The idea that God picks and chooses who enters heaven based on how many laws theyve broken is also a little messed up to me. So.. let me get you on the same page I am. You have the option to choose not to read what is below because I dont want to force it on you.

First off I believe God created the world perfect. However he gave we as humanity choice. Choice to follow God or to ignore him. You cannot truelly love something without choosing to correct? With that power of choice, humanity sinned, seperating themselves from God. God is perfect, therefore he cannot be around something imperfect. Thus God put a plan in motion to reunite humanity with himself. That plan was Jesus. Jesus payed the price for humanities sins.

I've broken the law of the Bible hundreds of times. We all have. Christianity believes that only through Jesus we can be saved because by ourselves we fail.

I can't believe such a higher being exists. There is too much hurt, too much pain, too much death, too much destruction, too much evil, too much war etc etc etc ..

If such a higher being exists, I don't want to believe in something that could possibly allow that to happen. God can create life, God can create a world .. yet god can't do anything to stop the total destruction because god can't be around something so imperfect?

If you try and teach me something new, I can't learn anything just by reading about it for example. The only way I'll truly grasp something new is to see it, to be able to visualize it, to be able to experience it ..

Maybe I'm blinded by all the hurt and the pain .. but I don't see a whole lot of goodness in this world, and I can't believe in a higher being that can allow and turn a blind eye to all this suffering.

To me God is just simply something people created because of their need to believe in something .. people can't handle thinking there's just nothing after they die .. so they created this god to make themselves feel better, to have something they can believe in and trust in and have faith in.

I think the idea is that God gave us free will. Suffering is caused by people, so for God to take it away, He would have to take away our free will as well.

Joey wrote:To me God is just simply something people created because of their need to believe in something .. people can't handle thinking there's just nothing after they die .. so they created this god to make themselves feel better, to have something they can believe in and trust in and have faith in.

To counter that, one could say that atheism is a matter of ignorance and the comfort of having no consequences for what someone does with his/her life.

I understand that and its something i've often restled with. The only answer I can give you is that God hasnt turned a blind eye. He sent the answer...its up to everyone else to accept it. I'm sure he could instantly stop everything if he wanted to, but that would take away our choice. Its because of our choices that the world is the way it is.

Axtech wrote:I think the idea is that God gave us free will. Suffering is caused by people, so for God to take it away, He would have to take away our free will as well.

I see Rob answered your question first.

well, those are my views

and i'm leaving this discussion now before it gets too heated .. i just wanted to throw my thoughts out there.

Joey wrote:well, those are my views

and i'm leaving this discussion now before it gets too heated .. i just wanted to throw my thoughts out there.

*waves*

Axtech wrote:

Rusty wrote:I say there is a God. Others may say there are many Gods. Still other say there is a God but with a different name. Maybe God is a combination of everyones beliefs and feelings. God embodies everything and everyone. God is beyong time, space and understanding. So God is possibly a combination of what everyone belives in, which means were all right, and nobody is wrong. The very religious dedicate their life to what they belive is right in their religioun. If each religioun is a part of God somehow then everyone wins. Even athesiets fit into the equation in some way. Arguing over what religion is right or wrong is pointless.

Okay, then let me run this by you (and everyone). Let's say God is a real stickler on the specifics. You are raised Jewish, and you believe in it with every fibre of your being. Let's say the Christians have it dead on, and you have to have been baptized to get into heaven (is that a christian thing, a catholic thing or both? anyway, ignore my incorrectness and continue). You're doomed to spend eternity in hell, even though you lived a good life, because you happened to get it wrong.

For all we know, figuring out which religion (if any) is right is the most important thing in life.

Well God loves everyone equally though. He isn't going to condemn someone for not worshipping him. He welcomes everyone into his waiting arms. Well thats what the priest said at the funeral pretty much.